Double sixths?

[Harrytulipan]

I find double sixths difficult.
Playing melodies in sixths is not that easy for me. Other people just do it but I suck at it.
I find it hard to even find out the correct fingerings. It is also difficult on the piano.

How do you figure out the correct fingerings for double sixths? By trial and error? There seems to be many different ways if playing them. All of the fingerings I try feel wrong or very uncomfortable (too much tension, I suppose).

 

[debra]

On PA playing a melody in sixths is not too difficult unless you want to play legato. What some people do is just play the upper melody legato and not the lower melody (you can even just use the thumb on each note of the lower melody.
On CBA it's a lot easier (because everything i compact so you can play with 1-5 2-4 1-5 2-4... or something like that. You can even play in octaves quite easily...
Now, if you turn the sixth around (so C-A becomes A-C) then everything turns into third, and it's easier. It may or may not sound right though... all depends on the song.

 

[Harrytulipan]

On PA playing a melody in sixths is not too difficult unless you want to play legato. What some people do is just play the upper melody legato and not the lower melody (you can even just use the thumb on each note of the lower melody.
On CBA it's a lot easier (because everything i compact so you can play with 1-5 2-4 1-5 2-4... or something like that. You can even play in octaves quite easily...
Now, if you turn the sixth around (so C-A becomes A-C) then everything turns into third, and it's easier. It may or may not sound right though... all depends on the song.

You're saying that the the thumb will make it non-legato? I was told by an organist that on an organ you can play scales with the thumb and make it legato but accordion is probsbly different.

Also, I see 1-4, 2-5 repeated as the legato fingering for scales in sixths but it is non-legato unless you have long 4 and 5 fingers.

What you suggested may require to play a sixth with 1-2 and that is a big stretch.

Sure CBA has it pros but I don't understand why people choose to learn two systems.
PA is at least the same as piano

I find the sixths in this tube to be very hard:

https://www.bellman.net/noter/fe48.gif

What fingerings wouldbe good?

 

[JeffJetton]

Paul is right. In cases like the song you linked to, you'd usually play the upper notes with your upper fingers, such that your pinkie (5th finger) is playing the highest note, and your other fingers play the other notes. Your thumb then typically plays all the lower notes.

So, for the "I de fal-lna" part, the top notes would be 3 4 5 3 4, and the bottom notes would all be 1.

In can be helpful to practice the two voices separately... just the top notes, then just the thumb notes. Then put them together.

(All with the usual caveat that fingering is, in the end, your own choice and may vary from the "usual" way.)

 

[debra]

You're saying that the the thumb will make it non-legato? I was told by an organist that on an organ you can play scales with the thumb and make it legato but accordion is probsbly different.

Also, I see 1-4, 2-5 repeated as the legato fingering for scales in sixths but it is non-legato unless you have long 4 and 5 fingers.

What you suggested may require to play a sixth with 1-2 and that is a big stretch.

Sure CBA has it pros but I don't understand why people choose to learn two systems.
PA is at least the same as piano

I find the sixths in this tube to be very hard:

https://www.bellman.net/noter/fe48.gif

What fingerings wouldbe good?

You misunderstood what I was saying about the thumb. Some people will play something like 1-3 1-4 1-5... do you play the upper note legato witn 3, 4, 5 and you jump with the thumb for the lower notes.

 

[Harrytulipan]

You misunderstood what I was saying about the thumb. Some people will play something like 1-3 1-4 1-5... do you play the upper note legato witn 3, 4, 5 and you jump with the thumb for the lower notes.

What are you saying?
I hear a lot about "you cannot play legato with them thumb". Playing the upper melody with the 4 and 5 fingers sound non-legato when I try it (and my 4th finger is not that short).

What is this 1-4, 2-5 fingerings all about then?

 

[debra]

What are you saying?
I hear a lot about "you cannot play legato with them thumb". Playing the upper melody with the 4 and 5 fingers sound non-legato when I try it (and my 4th finger is not that short).

What is this 1-4, 2-5 fingerings all about then?

On CBA everything is more compact. You can play one sixth with 1 and 4 and then go legato to the next with 2-5. But for other notes it may be easier to start with 1 and 5 and then move to 2 and 4... and throw 3 in the mix whenever you like. On PA the distance of a sixth is too large for many people. You can play the upper melody legato and then use the thumb for all the low notes. It takes pracice to play the melody legato while you have to move the thumb from note to note. So the thumb needs to be released earlier and then play the next note together with the upper note. This is a technique you also need to practice when there are common notes, for instance in thirds. If you have to play C-E and then E-G you can play C to E legato by releasing the E a bit earlier so you can repeat it when you play G. It's a common technique that is needed quite regularly.

 

[debra]

... Playing the upper melody with the 4 and 5 fingers sound non-legato when I try it (and my 4th finger is not that short).
...

The trick (which I learned while studying the piano, but it works the same on the accordion) is to bend your middle three fingers (2, 3, 4) and keep the pinkie (5) more stretched. Not only does this equalize the actual length of the fingers while playing, on the piano it also gives the pinkie extra strength. (You can hammer the keys with much more force when the pinkie is stretched than when it is bent.) Of course that strength is not something you use on the accordion as hammering the keys just causes more keyboard noise. In any case I have no problem at all playing legato with going from 4 to 5 or vice versa. And when your rounded 4 and stretched 5 are still not equal the keys on a piano keyboard are long enough to compensate for that, provided your hand is parallel to the keyboard, meaning you play with the arm/elbow stretched out and not held tight to your body.

 

[insert-witty-username]

I find double sixths difficult.

My answer to such problems often is to simplify the passage. In my experience at least, more notes do not automatically lead to more attractive sound. Unlike on the piano, you can't play these at different dynamic levels and run a risk of drowning out the melody.

As a personal rule of thumb, I'm more inclined to drop non-melody notes on the quicker and less essential notes.

 

[JerryPH]

I think that in this case, I would want to see how it is being played and what the difficulties are. Is it bad hand/wrist/elbow posture? Is it bad technique? Is it bad fingering? Is it just lack of experience/exercises? Is it bad practicing methods?

Cannot suggest much if I don't see what the issue is.

 

[jozz]

If you have long fingers and a lady size piano keyboard you can sometimes get away with more exotic fingering than just thumb+finger. Still, I find it hard too and avoid stretches like that if possible. But if practiced long enough, in the end, you will get more legato.