Frequency of accordion tuning

[Ffingers]

Jerry wrote: "... if you can hear it, and it bothers you... get it fixed."

That is one of the downsides of having an acute sense of comparative pitch.
Coloratura sopranos are painful to listen to, and some guitar players of the classical persuasion could do with a lot of help pre-performance.

In my youth I tuned a concert harpist's instrument for her performances and put a few pub pianos into almost acceptable tune using a single tuning fork for reference each time.

Even with most of my upper aural range gone AWOL, I still get get bothered by off key music.

 

[debra]

...
Coloratura sopranos are painful to listen to, and some guitar players of the classical persuasion could do with a lot of help pre-performance.

In my youth I tuned a concert harpist's instrument for her performances and put a few pub pianos into almost acceptable tune using a single tuning fork for reference each time.

Even with most of my upper aural range gone AWOL, I still get get bothered by off key music.

There is a specific problem with high notes: our brain actually likes them to be a bit higher than mathematically correct tuning delivers.
When you play ascending notes, like F, next F, next F, next F (you have just 4 on a piano accordion) you may already perceive that the highest F sounds flat when you compare it to the lowest F (on a correctly tuned accordion). Many instruments use "stretched tuning" (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stretched_tuning for a better explanation than anything I can write here), meaning that higher notes are actually higher than what well-tempered tuning suggests, and this causes them to sound "just right". Stringed instruments often use stretch tuning, and certainly woodwind instruments do too, which is why it is so hard or impossible to tune for instance an oboe or clarinet in such a way that it is "in tune" with an accordion on all notes (from lowest to highest). Composers compensate for this by avoiding the extreme ends of the tonal range of such instruments, but rather have a melody be taken over, from clarinet to oboe for instance, as it goes higher.
An accordion is always tuned "correctly", not "stretched", and to our ears that can sound wrong.

 

[colinm]

I have been playing the same accordion daily for twenty years and it has never needed retuning, revalving or rewaxing, just one problem with a buzzy reed, which seemed to resolve itself.

 

[Ikesaccordions]

Nobody should tune accordion reeds without years of practice. Nobody can get years of practice. Seriously, it's a dying art.
I ruined a lot of reeds in my checqered career, but I hope I don't do that now.
Before tuning, the reeds have to be cleaned and re-set into new wax, and all reed valves should ideally be replaced.
The least possible filing should be done, and the aperture protected from any abrasion.
As of recently, I don't tune other people's accordions, unless they break a reed, They can't afford the expense, and I haven't time. They buy rusted junk and complain that they paid less than I would have to charge.
If I do any tuning, it's for an accordion I want to sell, or for my own use, and for my own use, I use archaic Temperament for Classical, which sounds better than Equal Temperament with any kind of music that I myself play, including old popular Polkas, waltzes etc.
Equal Temperament is a scourge upon Civilized Man.

 

[Ikesaccordions]

Debra says: "An accordion is always tuned "correctly", not "stretched", and to our ears that can sound wrong."
Is it just me, or did I find the octaves often stretched on accordions. I attributed this to the factory, but if the reed wax is old, would that let more air into the higher pitched reeds' chambers than that which would affect the lower reeds? Or do the factories try to get away with some stretching of the octaves, causing an imperceptible slow difference "beat"? I was told this on what I consider good authority.

 

[losthobos]

If a certain note sounds 'out' enough or growls enough to irritate me then I just play in a different key
Thankfully either Emilio Allodi or Rob at Birmingham accordions have done the odd note retunes for me...but I make a clear note of which note, reed bank and push or pull before I see them to minimise their time...fixed in minutes

 

[Ikesaccordions]

When Ignace Paderewski was traveling incognito in Poland the story goes, he stopped at an inn, and said some of the notes on their piano didn't play. The innkeeper repled that if he were a good piano player, he could just skip over those keys so it wouldn't matter.

 

[Big Squeezy Accordions]

As others have said, it's very particular from one player to another. I have one client whose accordion I've tuned about twice a year for the past 10 years, because he is performing with major orchestras and people like Yo Yo Ma and needs it in tune, but also plays it on the street with brass bands in the extremely hot and humid New Orleans climate (which wreaks havoc with accordion tuning), and plays it very hard and often, so it is always going out of tune. I have many other clients who have never had their accordion tuned, including professionals, and they are fine with that. If you are always using a wet register, it can go pretty far out before it becomes a problem. I find myself tuning my own accordion maybe every 2-3 years, with the occasional spot tune in between. Also, some accordions will hold their tuning longer than others. Almost every accordion that comes through my shop needs some tuning to my ears, but I don't try to influence people to get it tuned, beyond the "Accordion Tuning Manifesto" on my website. I figure it's for the player to decide when their accordion is out of tune (which, by the way, it definitely is).

 

[Zevy]

I'm with Ike. If you can't notice it being out of tune, leave well enough alone. I have been playing for 69 yrs ( that's not a typo) and have never had an accordion tuned. God knows I have pounded on some that I have. I used to play out 5-6 nights a week. Now I have always had good quality accordions with hand made reeds, but nonetheless I've never had any sent out for tuning. I know I'm going to get a rash of xxccxx on this, but that's my experience. Maybe other people have had difference experiences.

Our good friend @JIM D. educated me a number of years ago on this subject. He said that if the reeds are good, they might need some playing or some cleaning, at best. Since then, I have not had my accordions tuned. Ever.

 

[Big Squeezy Accordions]

Debra says: "An accordion is always tuned "correctly", not "stretched", and to our ears that can sound wrong."
Is it just me, or did I find the octaves often stretched on accordions. I attributed this to the factory, but if the reed wax is old, would that let more air into the higher pitched reeds' chambers than that which would affect the lower reeds? Or do the factories try to get away with some stretching of the octaves, causing an imperceptible slow difference "beat"? I was told this on what I consider good authority.

I, too, often find the lowest octave or two of bass reeds to be significantly flat (accounting, of course, for the wide pitch range of the lowest reeds) on accordions that haven't been tuned since the factory, and have wondered if this is intentional. I don't think it sounds good, since bass notes are almost always heard in multiple octaves, and I will correct it. It's so common though that I wonder if it is done intentionally.

 

[debra]

I, too, often find the lowest octave or two of bass reeds to be significantly flat (accounting, of course, for the wide pitch range of the lowest reeds) on accordions that haven't been tuned since the factory, and have wondered if this is intentional. I don't think it sounds good, since bass notes are almost always heard in multiple octaves, and I will correct it. It's so common though that I wonder if it is done intentionally.

That's also my finding. Bass reeds tend to come out of the factory tuned flat (or not tuned at all?) and this is especially noticeable when the accordion has a register that played the lowest reed bank plus highest reed bank. (I would never use that register even when the reeds are in tune, but it should be usable.) It may be intentional (or not) because generally I find that reeds that go out of tune more often go sharp over time (than go flat).

 

[Ikesaccordions]

The lowest bass reeds react differently when you are testing them than when you play. Testing a bass reed by itself may not be a good idea. And who cares? We are to play the bass lightly, unless we are pretending to be 100 Pipers A' in A'.

 

[Marty S]

I’m considering buying a squeezebox tuned to 442Hz. Is this typical or is 440 needed since I’ll be playing with a piano and other instruments? Reading some posts here it seems like it wouldn’t be feasible to have its tuning changed if the 442 isn’t satisfactory, so I need to decide before I buy it.

 

[JerryPH]

I’m considering buying a squeezebox tuned to 442Hz. Is this typical or is 440 needed since I’ll be playing with a piano and other instruments? Reading some posts here it seems like it wouldn’t be feasible to have its tuning changed if the 442 isn’t satisfactory, so I need to decide before I buy it.

If you play with other instruments tuned 440, you are going to sound slightly out of tune to them. Not a fun experience.

 

[Dingo40]

I’m considering buying a squeezebox tuned to 442Hz. Is this typical or is 440 needed since I’ll be playing with a piano and other instruments? Reading some posts here it seems like it wouldn’t be feasible to have its tuning changed if the 442 isn’t satisfactory, so I need to decide before I buy it.

Don't do it: as has been posted several times, you'll stick out like a sore thumb among other players tuned to 440 hz!

 

[Ikesaccordions]

If you play with other instruments tuned 440, you are going to sound slightly out of tune to them. Not a fun experience.

Most German accordions are A440. Newer Italian ones also. It's not you but the other players who are out of tune if they are off-pitch.

 

[Ikesaccordions]

Don't do it: as has been posted several times, you'll stick out like a sore thumb among other players tuned to 440 hz!

The other players are out of tune. Everybody should play faster and get off this droning.

 

[Dingo40]

. It's not you but the other players who are out of tune if they are off-pitch.

Like the fond mother said, while watching the army parade,
"That's my boy, the only one in step!"

 

[boxplayer4000]

Without some 'stretch' (to my ear) some accordions would/do sound out of tune, particularly in the high end.
The lack of stretch was particularly noticeable in older analogue keyboards where the whole keyboard was derived from just 12 notes.
This is an entry in Wikipedia on the subject of 'stretch' in the piano world:

Inharmonicity "stretches" harmonics beyond their theoretical frequencies, and higher harmonics are stretched proportionally more than lower. Thus, in our example of an octave, exactly matching the lowest common harmonic causes a slight amount of stretch, matching the next higher common harmonic causes a greater amount of stretch, and so on. If the interval is a double octave, exactly matching the upper note to the fourth harmonic of the lower complicates the tuning of that upper note with the one an octave below it.
Solving such dilemmas is at the heart of precise tuning by ear, and all solutions involve some stretching of the higher notes upward and the lower notes downward from their theoretical frequencies. In shorter pianos the wire stiffness in the bass register is proportionately high and therefore causes greater stretch; on larger concert grand pianos this effect is reduced. Online sources[2] suggest that the total amount of "stretch" over the full range of a small piano may be on the order of ±35 cents: this also appears in the empirical Railsback curve.

 

[JerryPH]

Most German accordions are A440. Newer Italian ones also. It's not you but the other players who are out of tune if they are off-pitch.

I found a Hohner Golina II tuned to A=442. His chances of selling that accordion are for all intents and purposes near zero until they find a buyer that is clueless.