Giulietti - Background and Guidance

[RunClimbPlay]

Found this in an (overpriced) antique store. Had a stuck bass button so I was able to say that it was 'broken,' but could tell that it seemed in decent shape. $80...did overpay??

Seriously, I'd appreciate any background on this instrument. Apart from being a Giulietti, I haven't been able to find anything on it. I have my suspicions, but I'll let you chime in. Apart from a few musette keys, the intonation seems really good, and all the reeds voice well. The only thing that really stands out as far as sound is that some of the low bass reeds seem to to resonate with a metallic 'boinnng/springy' sound - bad leathers? It has a musty smell and, just noticed, white specks on the inside of the bellows that wipe off with a finger, but the bellows seem good.

Also, what next steps would you take to give it some love? I plan on keeping this and look forward to honing my skills and earning its respect -- so...clean the bellows? replace some leathers? clean/replace the mic connections (and who the hell is "S.C"?) polish the treble and bass actuators (bars, pivots...not sure what they are called. the bass buttons feel a bit weak), enlarge the air release valve, work on air-tightness, new back pad. What would you prioritize?

Also, there is a faint mark for the Eb bass button. I added rhinestones to 2 bass buttons on my other accordion, which helped a lot - would that be sacrilege or a decent idea on this one?

Really enjoying this newest addition to the family.

Photo Album

EDIT: Wiped down the inside of the bellows with damp rag of vinegar/alcohol.

 

[SteveBox]

You seem to be getting no replies. Maybe this reply will prompt others.

I am not an expert on restoring accordions, but I would say $80 for a vintage four reed LMMH Giulietti is not too much to pay, maybe even a bargain if the restoration is not too expensive. Back in the day, Giuliettis were name-brand quality accordions. That internal microphone wiring looks decrepit, however.

 

[ColoRodney]

Yes, I was going to say, the best thing to do with the wiring may be to strip it out and (if you need a microphone) get a more modern set. Though running the wire through the bellows is a pain, so maybe that bit could be salvaged… do what you like with the bass buttons, if you plan to keep and play it. I’d say start by using it as is, and fix anything that starts to bother you. $80 for a working Giulletti is an excellent deal.

 

[debra]

I'm sure JimD will know more about this accordion.
It seems to be in good condition (considering that it is very old). The reeds are not rusted as far as we can see. It is an LMMM configuration. (The markings on the registers are more decorative than informative.)
The accordion will need some work (not in the least on the microphone setup which may not be salvageable).
But generally it looks like it can be brought back to life without way too much work to make it worth it.

 

[RunClimbPlay]

Yes, I was going to say, the best thing to do with the wiring may be to strip it out and (if you need a microphone) get a more modern set. Though running the wire through the bellows is a pain, so maybe that bit could be salvaged… do what you like with the bass buttons, if you plan to keep and play it. I’d say start by using it as is, and fix anything that starts to bother you. $80 for a working Giulletti is an excellent deal.

Yes, I've already cut out the wiring. Not sure if the pickups are any good. I'm starting to hear reeds that don't voice, so I think it may be time to make a test bellows (already have the bellows). No info on the logo...what it signifies in the Giulietti family...or model?

 

[mtj]

Yes, I've already cut out the wiring. Not sure if the pickups are any good. I'm starting to hear reeds that don't voice, so I think it may be time to make a test bellows (already have the bellows). No info on the logo...what it signifies in the Giulietti family...or model?

Giulietti was made by a few different companies. The best ones are from Zero Sette and that logo looks to me like it was made by Zero Sette. But I’m no expert.

 

[Ventura]

just look at the aluminum action arms under the grill

if they are rounded (i think likely) it is the older build
(pre-zero) parts are not interchangeable with later
same-models. G was not financially powerful enough
much prior to working with Zero to specify or engineer
bodies or mechanicals or literally any design elements
above cosmetics, so all bodies were stock/generic for the most part

but look closely at the reeds just in case.. if this was a custom build
for a pro some of these were brought over bare-bones and
finished here by G

the federfisa badge was used by a large consortium of
factories trying to fend off the loss of business as the
"golden era goose" of accordion schools in America collapsed..
their aim was to share orders between factories for fulfillment
and all stay in existence until times got better again

y'all can guess how that turned out, right ?

most badges on the grillwork are trinkets made by companies that
designed, made, and sold bling to accordion companies, same as other
common parts.. there is little rhyme or reason to who, when and where
they were used beyond "in 1957 we ordered 10,000 pieces of neat looking
emblems and it took us until 1961 to use 'em all up then ordered summore
but this time they had a blue edge and we got a deal on 50,000 and were still
trying to use them up when we went bankrupt then sum guy bought
a bunch of our old junk and God only knows where they ended up but
you still see a few on eBay marked >RARE< for more money than we
ever got for an entire accordion"

either way you got a good deal for 80

 

[RunClimbPlay]

Interesting info. Not sure whether these are 'rounded' or not:

Anything I should look for on the reeds to know to help identify them?

 

[Ventura]

those are the more modern action levers.. you see the sides
are flat.. they have better ability to resist side-to-side misalignment
over time than the older round type

as for the reeds, the older the Giulietti the better chance it had
reeds made by him here in the USA..

 

[RunClimbPlay]

Okay, here are the bass reeds:

Photo Album

I notice the same diagonal scratch mark on the corner of each reed block. Does anything here tell you anything about the quality/manufacture of the reeds?

Also, the corner of the large reed block seems to have corrosion or rust on the blocks and partly on the reeds. Any suggestions for how to deal with this?

 

[debra]

Okay, here are the bass reeds:

Photo Album

I notice the same diagonal scratch mark on the corner of each reed block. Does anything here tell you anything about the quality/manufacture of the reeds?

Also, the corner of the large reed block seems to have corrosion or rust on the blocks and partly on the reeds. Any suggestions for how to deal with this?

The diagonal scratch mark is found on almost all Italian reeds. It helps to identify which side is outside when reed plates are removed (for instance for cleaning). When there are different reed blocks with the same reeds (like an up-tuned tremolo reed, and sometimes also a down-tuned extra tremolo reed) two diagonal scratches are used for the second and three for the third reed bank. The scratches serve no other purpose than to identify which reed belongs to which reed bank and which side of the reed plate is outside.
As for the corrosion, it doesn't look bad yet. Clean with steel wool. If any rust remains on the reed itself (not the copper weight), rub it with a soft pencil. (The graphite of the pencil will seal off the pores in the steel.)

 

[RunClimbPlay]

I added the treble reeds to the album.

Interesting about the scratch mark. I also notice that one side of the treble banks has a single mark on the end and the other side has a double mark. Also, noticing more ...rust?...on these reeds. Just 0000 steel wool? Not 'Royal Jelly" or other rust remover?

Neat pencil tip!

So, are these generic reeds? Handmade/machinemade?

 

[debra]

I see new photos were added and they do show significant rust, especially on the inside. I'm not an expert on removing rust, especially not in difficult to reach places (like the inside of the reeds). Steel wool, brushes... wd40... people try different things. But the reality is that rust is a bit like cancer: it keeps coming back.

 

[debra]

I added the treble reeds to the album.

Interesting about the scratch mark. I also notice that one side of the treble banks has a single mark on the end and the other side has a double mark. Also, noticing more ...rust?...on these reeds. Just 0000 steel wool? Not 'Royal Jelly" or other rust remover?

Neat pencil tip!

So, are these generic reeds? Handmade/machinemade?

The reeds look like "tipo a mano" to me. (That's hand finished, not completely hand made.) The very sad reality is that replacing all the reeds in an accordion is so expensive that it is hardly ever worth it.

 

[RunClimbPlay]

I see new photos were added and they do show significant rust, especially on the inside. I'm not an expert on removing rust, especially not in difficult to reach places (like the inside of the reeds). Steel wool, brushes... wd40... people try different things. But the reality is that rust is a bit like cancer: it keeps coming back.

Ugh! Didn't notice in the inner rust. I guess it's time to educate myself on removing reed rust!

 

[craigd]

Support the inner reed from behind before you work at it. And the inner side of the inner reed may need similar treatment. Tuning will definitely be affected by the amount of rust on some of those reeds. That's a pretty cool accordion, fairly unique I think, so worth the time and effort if it's the kind of instrument you want. Curious about how wide the musette is. And as far as the reed type, I can't tell if I'm seeing bluing or just shadow on the edge of the reed base. Bluing there would indicate handmade reeds. That's a great find, but what you didn't pay in cash you will be paying in time. Of course if it's something you enjoy doing, that'll be part of the bargain. With the one uncertainty being whether the reeds can recover from that amount of rust. I don't have enough experience to answer that.

 

[RunClimbPlay]

Support the inner reed from behind before you work at it. And the inner side of the inner reed may need similar treatment. Tuning will definitely be affected by the amount of rust on some of those reeds. That's a pretty cool accordion, fairly unique I think, so worth the time and effort if it's the kind of instrument you want. Curious about how wide the musette is. And as far as the reed type, I can't tell if I'm seeing bluing or just shadow on the edge of the reed base. Bluing there would indicate handmade reeds. That's a great find, but what you didn't pay in cash you will be paying in time. Of course if it's something you enjoy doing, that'll be part of the bargain. With the one uncertainty being whether the reeds can recover from that amount of rust. I don't have enough experience to answer that.

I think it already sounds better than my Paolo Soprani LMMH accordion. That one has a wide musette, which I don't really like. The Giulietti sounds more gentle...and even across the scale. Some day, when I take on tuning, I'll report the musette setting. I'm pretty sure it's bluing, so I'm going to decide they are handmade. My hope is that I'll spend time on this and will hear the result in a more beautiful sounding accordion -- a win, win as far as I'm concerned.

I'll report back - maybe others will benefit.

 

[debra]

Ugh! Didn't notice in the inner rust. I guess it's time to educate myself on removing reed rust!

When inspecting an accordion it is vital to always look for rust under the valves (i.e. rust on the "blued" side). Moisture gets trapped between that side of the reed and the valve and that causes this side to develop more rust than the outside. The outside can look free of rust on all the reeds while the inside of these same reeds can be rusted so badly the only remedy is to replace the reeds.

 

[RunClimbPlay]

Update! After spending some time worrying about my baby, I got home and was able to take a closer look. I looked at each reed and under all the leather (well, not the leathers on the inside). I added a few pics to the album if you're interested. The scary reed you noticed, the tiny one with all the rust, is the worst of all of them (!!!). I have a pic of only one other that was as bad, which is directly opposite that first one on the reed block. Looking under all the leathers, I only saw the very rare spot -- I think they look really good.

A weird thing I noticed is that some of the leathers are really dirty underneath (pics are in the album). They don't seem to be over bad reeds, and all the leathers seem to be the same age, so maybe they correspond to some weird chords he was playing one night in a smokey bar?!

I've got fiberglass pens coming, which seem to be a fairly safe way to get at rust.