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Korg FISA SUPREMA

Hmm. So Uwe finally made a (mostly) serious video.

I like his analysis of the Korg, even though it's HIS analysis. I hope that the people reacting here who differ with aspects of his analysis are limited to those who have spent time with the instrument, but I'm sure that won't happen.

A couple of quick thoughts -- Uwe spent some time in the video talking about Cavagnolo's long history with digital accordions. It's a shame that that Cavagnolo has no dealer presence in the USA. Jerry, do they have a dealer presence in Canada? Also, he briefly mentioned Proxima, but finding one of those is even more difficult.
 
I like his analysis of the Korg, even though it's HIS analysis. I hope that the people reacting here who differ with aspects of his analysis are limited to those who have spent time with the instrument, but I'm sure that won't happen.
Uwe has some very specific needs and requirements, but outside of those, he is not far from speaking for the general masses. Price and functionality differences, the importance of those differences, whats missing in terms of sounds, the advantages and what he would add if he could.

He did all that with class, clarity a little humor and a lot of facts.

Jerry, do they have a dealer presence in Canada? Also, he briefly mentioned Proxima, but finding one of those is even more difficult.
Proxima = vaporware. It is a twinkle in the greedy little eyes of a small group of people.

Cavagnolo have NOTHING in North America. They are 99% in France and 1% in Diamond Hill, just north of Hong Kong (China).
 
Uwe has some very specific needs and requirements, but outside of those, he is not far from speaking for the general masses. Price and functionality differences, the importance of those differences, whats missing in terms of sounds, the advantages and what he would add if he could.

He did all that with class, clarity a little humor and a lot of facts.


Proxima = vaporware. It is a twinkle in the greedy little eyes of a small group of people.

Cavagnolo have NOTHING in North America. They are 99% in France and 1% in Diamond Hill, just north of Hong Kong (China).
Thanks for the info on Cavagnolo. I suspected as much.

Oh, and BTW, I agree with you about Uwe AND what you said about Proxima. Proxima’s specs sure look good on paper and video, but until I see somebody actually stocking their products, well, let’s just say that I was part of the home computer scene in the eighties and early nineties, so I know what vaporware looks like.
 
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Thanks for the info on Cavagnolo. I suspected as much.

Oh, and BTW, I agree with you about Uwe AND what you said about Proxima. Proxima’s specs sure look good on paper and video, but until I see somebody actually stocking their products, well, let’s just say that I was part of the home computer scene in the eighties and early nineties, so I know what vaporware looks like.
Home computers did exist!
 
So Uwe has made a bit of a final video about the Fisa Suprema:
...
Many thanks for pointing out this new video.
One thing I failed to hear him talk about in any of the other 10 videos (maybe I just missed it) is in his final video: errors in the CBA layout. I wonder if you or anyone else knows about what he means.
Edit: I had a quick look at the manual and I think I found out what the problem is: When you enable C-system melody bass the button that's normally C major becomes a C in the melody bass. On a real C-system convertor accordion the Stradella base notes are one row down so that C in the melody bass is where G major is in Stradella. Such a shift may not sound like it's a big deal but advanced users of convertor instruments will often use the Stradella base notes in combination with melody bass (especially in Bayan B-system where the lowest octave of the melody bass is not conveniently placed for good bellows control). When Stradella base notes versus melody bass notes are shifted over by one note you essentially have to learn everything over again...
 
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Many thanks for pointing out this new video.
One thing I failed to hear him talk about in any of the other 10 videos (maybe I just missed it) is in his final video: errors in the CBA layout. I wonder if you or anyone else knows about what he means.
Uwe is B system player in the bayan layout. I would suspect that he may be referring to the placement of the diminished chords on Stradella (on bayans you will find the Gdim chord in the C chord row, right outside of C7) or to the alignment of Stradella with free bass when switching. It would be my guess that getting C system right would have a better chance with the Korg development team.
 
Uwe is B system player in the bayan layout. I would suspect that he may be referring to the placement of the diminished chords on Stradella (on bayans you will find the Gdim chord in the C chord row, right outside of C7) or to the alignment of Stradella with free bass when switching. It would be my guess that getting C system right would have a better chance with the Korg development team.
True, "Stradella" bass on a B-system bayan should have Cdim one row down. Knowledgeable people who play B-system with European standard bass know, when ordering a Russian bayan, that they have to order it with Cdim on the C row...
But another error in the bass is that in Stradella mode all the notes are one row too high compared to a C-system convertor accordion (also piano accordion with C-system convertor). The C base note should be one row lower, so that the closest C in the melody bass is where G major is in Stradella. On the Korg that melody bass C is where C major is in Stradella, and you cannot change that layout to match what players expect.
 
Many thanks for pointing out this new video.
One thing I failed to hear him talk about in any of the other 10 videos (maybe I just missed it) is in his final video: errors in the CBA layout. I wonder if you or anyone else knows about what he means.
Edit: I had a quick look at the manual and I think I found out what the problem is: When you enable C-system melody bass the button that's normally C major becomes a C in the melody bass. On a real C-system convertor accordion the Stradella base notes are one row down so that C in the melody bass is where G major is in Stradella. Such a shift may not sound like it's a big deal but advanced users of convertor instruments will often use the Stradella base notes in combination with melody bass (especially in Bayan B-system where the lowest octave of the melody bass is not conveniently placed for good bellows control). When Stradella base notes versus melody bass notes are shifted over by one note you essentially have to learn everything over again...
Paul,

I just swapped out the button tops to add the marked tops for C and F. The lowest note is a Eb that aligns with what should usually be a E#dim stradella button (that's what I see in my other C system converter). The problem is actually with the stradella layout itself. Instead of going from Fb to E#, the stradella goes from Bbb to A#. The stradella layout seems to be consistent with stradella only accordions.

I was briefly playing Asturias. This song used both stradella bass and free bass at the same time. It sounded weird. I thought I made a mistake. Now I know that this is a problem with the instrument. That's an annoying little problem.
 
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Wow !! This is the 29th page of posts for the FISA since it came out and this thread began -- there has to be an interest in this new digital accordion. Then it looked like this thread was dead -- it's been 8 days since a "peep" about the Fisa. All of a sudden, today we have dozens of posts about the Fisa -- all started by Breezy Bellows, about his new Fisa for an unbiased opinion of what it is really like. Thank you Breezy -- this is great. As I said before, I will get one -- just a matter of time until the initial "Bugs" get worked out.
 
Yes, but there were so many products promised that never made it to market.
There are some great contemporary examples.
Tesla Full Self Driving with oxymoronic rebranding.
Full Self Driving Beta ----> Full Self Driving (Supervised)

What next? All you can eat buffet (not edible)
 
Wow !! This is the 29th page of posts for the FISA since it came out and this thread began -- there has to be an interest in this new digital accordion. Then it looked like this thread was dead -- it's been 8 days since a "peep" about the Fisa. All of a sudden, today we have dozens of posts about the Fisa -- all started by Breezy Bellows, about his new Fisa for an unbiased opinion of what it is really like. Thank you Breezy -- this is great. As I said before, I will get one -- just a matter of time until the initial "Bugs" get worked out.
It usually takes me 2-3 weeks to get to know an accordion. The initial impression is definitely positive. There are some quirks though.


It's not possible to save Free Bass as part of the scenes. That will be a major problem for anyone who uses free bass. From what I heard, there should be a software update to fix this. Until it comes out, this will remain a problem.
 
Thanks for the response, very helpful. The Korg Fisa product manager - an acoustic player himself - described the bellows as 95% similar so that is reassuring especially as he had such a trustworthy face. Given you can switch the lights off, and presumably disable novelty gadgets and kitsch sounds, it looks good. I will be rushing to try one as soon as it reaches the Korg dealer in Morecambe, just mindful that Bambi was only released there last year, so considerable consumer patience is required!
Disclaimer: my opinion can change after I spend more time with the FISA.

If I compare how similar my EVO or FR-4x bellows were to an acoustic accordion, I'll give it only about 10%. It is possible to control dynamics and expression, but it feels very very different from an acoustic accordion. The acoustic accordion produces the sound using air flow. The digital uses pressure sensors (at least that's how it feels). As a result, the bellows are so stiff. The Evo does have variable bellows resistance. But all that out does is let more air leak outside. When you loosen up the bellows, you hear a loud puff. I absolutely hated it and tightened the bellows and never bothered to reduce the resistance again. The lower bellows resistance does help make bellows shake a bit easier (from impossible to a semblance of a bellows shake), but it was never going to be like an acoustic.


Coming to the Korg, IMO it certainly didn't feel like a 95% (and definitely not 99.9%). I'll give it a solid 60% (compared to the 10% of the Evo). I still think that it's a huge improvement. An improvement from 99% to 99.9% means that there is no noticeable difference between Evo/8x, Fisa and an acoustic. That doesn't add up. 10% to 60% is a huge improvement but it's still different from an acoustic. To give more credit to Korg, for the two hours I was playing - for the most part - I didn't pay attention to the bellows. In other words, the bellows didn't bother me. That's a great thing indeed.
 
Many thanks for pointing out this new video.
One thing I failed to hear him talk about in any of the other 10 videos (maybe I just missed it) is in his final video: errors in the CBA layout. I wonder if you or anyone else knows about what he means.
Edit: I had a quick look at the manual and I think I found out what the problem is: When you enable C-system melody bass the button that's normally C major becomes a C in the melody bass. On a real C-system convertor accordion the Stradella base notes are one row down so that C in the melody bass is where G major is in Stradella. Such a shift may not sound like it's a big deal but advanced users of convertor instruments will often use the Stradella base notes in combination with melody bass (especially in Bayan B-system where the lowest octave of the melody bass is not conveniently placed for good bellows control). When Stradella base notes versus melody bass notes are shifted over by one note you essentially have to learn everything over again...
Edit: the fix didn't work. It shifted both stradella and free bass.

The alignment can be adjusted. I just shifted the stradella bass rows down by one position. That made it identical to my c system converter. The button tops are easily swappable. So the markings can be moved around easily. So this shouldn't be an issue.
 
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The alignment can be adjusted. I just shifted the stradella bass rows down by one position. That made it identical to my c system converter. The button tops are easily swappable. So the markings can be moved around easily. So this shouldn't be an issue.
That's good to know. A simple shift down by one row (relative to the melody bass) can make a huge difference to convertor players who are used to that position.
 
That's good to know. A simple shift down by one row (relative to the melody bass) can make a huge difference to convertor players who are used to that position.
Paul, I take that back. The setting that I adjusted shifted both stradella and free bass. It is not a relative shift. So the problem still exists.
 
Uwe Steger pointed out this issue in one of his videos. He communicated it to Korg, they may make a firmware update that addresses that… maybe.
 
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