New and asking for advice on a purchase!

[JCarl]

I know you guys get these a lot...I am preparing to get a "just under $1000" vintage from Mike in Phili. I'm trusting him and paying premium knowing that he is going through and making sure my first purchase is both quality and well-looked over by Liberty.
My question is this, if anyone is willing to answer it: I have been a salaried professional pianist for over 30 years, and am planning to get a 19" keybed piano accordion for that reason. I have talked to Mike, and he recommended a Pan Crucianelli for 799 and a Wurlitzer Lyric 41 for the same price. He believes the Wurlizter to be in slightly better condition, but suggested that both are pretty equal across the board.
I am NOT questioning Mike's integrity, honesty, or care for my satisfaction. I've read enough on here to know that you all think the world of him and Liberty Bellows, so I'm not worried about that. I very much wish to do business with him for the care he's already given me. I am just curious as to some opinions of the two. I'm leaning toward the Crucianelli due to its history of quality and beautiful tone (to me anyway...), but I don't wish to disregard the Lyric if it is a true compeititor. Thoughts? I PROMISE to post a note of whichever I choose, and they are both on their site right now. Don't buy it out from under me, haha!

 

[Tom]

Welcome JC! If you love the history and tone of the Crucianelli, it seems like that’s the one to go with. That is to say that the actual playing condition is equal to or better than the Lyric. Main thing is which one resonates more with YOU.

I hope which ever one you get delights the heck out of you and you get hours of enjoyment from your new accordion! Remember, it’s mandatory to post a picture when you get it! JK

 

[Ben-jammin]

the Crucianelli is double octave LMH and the Lryic is LM. I think one thing you should decide is whether or not you want or need an accordion with tremolo or not, because both of the options you selected will be dry tuned. I would be confident that either one would be suitable instruments to learn on. If you’re unsure I would recommend looking for an LMM or LMMH because respectively they can do the things an LM or LMH can do but also gives you a tremolo option.

Another thing I would consider is that there is a law of diminishing returns for accordions. And at that price from a dealer you are kind of on the steep side of that curve. Again either option will be a suitable instrument and I don’t want you to think you need features or qualities that you don’t, but it’s worth considering that if you looked at a couple slighter higher price points you could get additional features at a reasonable increase in cost.

Best of luck.

 

[Pipemajor]

That's very sound advice from Ben-Jammin
Think of the music you like and what you would like to play.
To a certain extent that will guide you whether you need tremolo or not.
In any case it's always better to have more features to start with, even if you don't use them.
You may want them later down the line

 

[JCarl]

really great answers! thank you guys! At the moment, I'm forced to stay under 1000. I'm willing to overpay for these due to the fact that I'm hoping their reputation is earned, and they are saving me the risk of buying a used one with unknown repair needs that would cost more in the long run. I have also learned from doctor google (I know...) that Wurlitzer has some unique issues that may suggest not getting that one. I did look at the other Cruc that they have for some more $$ but was concerned about the weight of it. Also, an Excelsior and Detroit for a little over 1000, but I truly don't know if I can swing it. I'm scared to go with other stores due to chance of shipping damage. It "seems" that Liberty has their shipping tactis pretty solid from what I read here?

My granpa had an Italian made (don't remember the brand) that my dad kept on it's side in the closet for 30 years. I remember my dad playing it poorly, and never being allowed to touch it. By the time it was given to me it leaked horribly, and was very fragile from DISUSE. I got rid of it, and cannot wait to being my new hobby! I've played piano professionally for years, and am looking forward to something new for ME as I turn 55 next week. And I am getting a LOT from this forum already!

 

[JCarl]

Mostly at the beginning will be polka/German, Zydeco, Cajun, but definately French and Italian will be there as well. I have a German family history...

Good news is if I get good enough to perform in local things here in Florida, I can always buy a second one...!

 

[dak]

I have been a salaried professional pianist for over 30 years, and am planning to get a 19" keybed piano accordion for that reason.

the Crucianelli is double octave LMH and the Lryic is LM. I think one thing you should decide is whether or not you want or need an accordion with tremolo or not, because both of the options you selected will be dry tuned. I would be confident that either one would be suitable instruments to learn on. If you’re unsure I would recommend looking for an LMM or LMMH because respectively they can do the things an LM or LMH can do but also gives you a tremolo option.

I am going to go on a bit of a tangent/disagreement here: with your background in music, chances are that the pitch-muddiness that comes with accordion tremolo is not going to be something you'll care a lot for on a continuing basis while practising. If you have definite plans to stick with typical "accordion music" genres, the audience expectations will coincide with the kind of sound provided by tremolo. But if you are going into heavy performing, it would not be uncalled for to then, with appropriate training under your belt, look for a dedicated performance instrument.

As a pianist, your right hand actions will tend to be quite skilled but way too much effort (the accordion does not register key velocity). But your left hand will have no concept of bellows control. A one-or-two reed non-tremolo registration is much better for perceiving the fine points of bellows action than anything involving tremolo. So even if tremolo were where you wanted to go eventually, I'd keep it off most of the time for practice, and if you do that, an accordion that doesn't have tremolo in the first place is more likely to provide a reasonable balance of the bass volume compared to the treble.

The Crucianelli likely is a good choice. The Wurlitzer is kind of an unknown to me: I just don't know who manufactured for them at what quality.

 

[JCarl]

the Crucianelli is double octave LMH and the Lryic is LM. I think one thing you should decide is whether or not you want or need an accordion with tremolo or not, because both of the options you selected will be dry tuned. I would be confident that either one would be suitable instruments to learn on. If you’re unsure I would recommend looking for an LMM or LMMH because respectively they can do the things an LM or LMH can do but also gives you a tremolo option.

Another thing I would consider is that there is a law of diminishing returns for accordions. And at that price from a dealer you are kind of on the steep side of that curve. Again either option will be a suitable instrument and I don’t want you to think you need features or qualities that you don’t, but it’s worth considering that if you looked at a couple slighter higher price points you could get additional features at a reasonable increase in cost.

Best of luck.

They have an Excelsior for 999 that is LMMH....maybe that one? I'm in no hurry either...I am buying without playing it myself, but I'm not too worried about that for the following:

again, Liberty's reputation for going over the stuff, while not perfect seems solid enough and their shipping. There's nowhere near me to shop.

2. I can at least hear and see them played, and played well.

3. As my first accordion, I don't have strong opinions on feel, other than my dad's was a beast 120 as well, so I'm at least used to the size and weight of it.

 

[JCarl]

I am going to go on a bit of a tangent/disagreement here: with your background in music, chances are that the pitch-muddiness that comes with accordion tremolo is not going to be something you'll care a lot for on a continuing basis while practising. If you have definite plans to stick with typical "accordion music" genres, the audience expectations will coincide with the kind of sound provided by tremolo. But if you are going into heavy performing, it would not be uncalled for to then, with appropriate training under your belt, look for a dedicated performance instrument.

As a pianist, your right hand actions will tend to be quite skilled but way too much effort (the accordion does not register key velocity). But your left hand will have no concept of bellows control. A one-or-two reed non-tremolo registration is much better for perceiving the fine points of bellows action than anything involving tremolo. So even if tremolo were where you wanted to go eventually, I'd keep it off most of the time for practice, and if you do that, an accordion that doesn't have tremolo in the first place is more likely to provide a reasonable balance of the bass volume compared to the treble.

The Crucianelli likely is a good choice. The Wurlitzer is kind of an unknown to me: I just don't know who manufactured for them at what quality.

I am really impressed with all these thoughtful answers!! thank you guys!! I was also wondering if I should get a small one and just "get used" to thinner keys, since any performing I do in the future (a long ways away) will probably include walking. Anywhere else I should look at storewise? I just found Mike to be really helpful and unhurried on the phone. He seems straight up to me... I don't expect anyone here to badmouth stores, but any other suggesttions that you'd trust their shipping I'd be open to hearing. you can pm me if you'd like

 

[colinm]

What makes you think you can buy the right accordion first time when you know nothing about them, there are hundreds of different features , sounds, keyboards, sizes, colours, weights etc. I have bought and sold at least 40 and still have not found the right one.

 

[JCarl]

What makes you think you can buy the right accordion first time when you know nothing about them, there are hundreds of different features , sounds, keyboards, sizes, colours, weights etc. I have bought and sold at least 40 and still have not found the right one.

assuming the humor here...that is exactly why i'm just gonna get advice here for a day and then swing at the pitch and see what happens haha!

 

[dak]

What makes you think you can buy the right accordion first time when you know nothing about them, there are hundreds of different features , sounds, keyboards, sizes, colours, weights etc. I have bought and sold at least 40 and still have not found the right one.

An accordion is a leg of a journey, not a destination. And each leg may last for a long number of steps.

 

[JCarl]

An accordion is a leg of a journey, not a destination. And each leg may last for a long number of steps.

Yeah, but each leg is expensive so I’m doing my very best diligence ha ha to at least hit the ball with the bat. You guys are awesome.

 

[colinm]

I would just go for the best tone. Crucianelli is a well known make.

 

[Ben-jammin]

They have an Excelsior for 999 that is LMMH....maybe that one? I'm in no hurry either...I am buying without playing it myself, but I'm not too worried about that for the following:

again, Liberty's reputation for going over the stuff, while not perfect seems solid enough and their shipping. There's nowhere near me to shop.

2. I can at least hear and see them played, and played well.

3. As my first accordion, I don't have strong opinions on feel, other than my dad's was a beast 120 as well, so I'm at least used to the size and weight of it.

If it were me that “four rocker” Excelsior would be a high contender. Likely to have the nicest reeds of the three you’re looking at. It’s an older box for sure but they were built well and known for their balance. It also lets you sample different reed combinations and see what you like. Of course condition trumps everything with used accordions.

 

[JCarl]

ANALYSIS PARALYSIS IS GONNA SET IN HAHA!!!

 

[Ben-jammin]

I have no association with Mike but I believe he has a decent trade up policy. I would say any of the three options should be good platforms to grow your skills and you have the option to trade up without losing too much equity if later you determine you need different features or just want a nicer instrument.

 

[96Bass]

I must be one of the few that had a bad experience with LB. Accordion was damaged in shipping. What was worse was the attitude of the store owner. Accordion was returned and re-listed on their website as a new accordion, with no mention the accordion had been damaged. Video of the damage at the top of the linked page.

Mailing or traveling with accordion

I have purchased two new Beltuna accordions from Castiglione in the past. John Castiglione would not ship an accordion in its case. He placed the accordion in a sealed plastic bag and then put it in a sturdy cardboard shipping box and the accordion was surrounded by about 12" of shipping peanuts...

www.accordionists.info

 

[JCarl]

I must be one of the few that had a bad experience with LB. Accordion was damaged in shipping. What was worse was the attitude of the store owner. Accordion was returned and re-listed on their website as a new accordion, with no mention the accordion had been damaged. Video of the damage at the top of the linked page.

Mailing or traveling with accordion

I have purchased two new Beltuna accordions from Castiglione in the past. John Castiglione would not ship an accordion in its case. He placed the accordion in a sealed plastic bag and then put it in a sturdy cardboard shipping box and the accordion was surrounded by about 12" of shipping peanuts...

www.accordionists.info

Yeah, thanks for letting me know-I did read your account yesterday thoughtfully, and am balancing that account with others. Am very open to any other shop recommendations. I've been around piano dealers for long enough to not trust anyone, really... your experience absolutely counts, and I'm sorry you had that happen to you, brother.

 

[JCarl]

I am kind of concerned about having a musette "sound" if not an actual musette. I want to play good musette sounding music as well...