Pet peeve: "song" vs. "piece"

[Dingo40]

This thread rather reminds me of Humpty Dumpty in the classic "Alice in Wonderland, when he says,
“When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.”

 

[dak]

(Old man yelling at cloud.) It annoys the heck out of me when people, who should know better, use the word "song" to refer to what should be called "piece". If there are no words, and there were never any words, it not a "song".

What are your pet peeves?

Frankly, I'd also raise my eyebrows at hearing called, say, the "Agnus Dei" from Bach's B minor mass a "song". Not everything involving a singer is a song. That's not constrained to classical music: even things like Queen's "Bohemian Rhapsody" don't fit the label in my book. A "song" in my usage of the word is mainly carried by a sung melody, without instrumental complications like solos and counterpoints, and in one consistent style.

No idea how much my language feeling is off here compared to native speakers of whatever geographic origin.

 

[Jim2010]

I think that if we are guided by an intention of respect for the music we are talking about, we will want to know an appropriate way to describe it (i.e., a way that helps listeners know what the heck we are talking about). Generally speaking, here in the USA since about 1960, if a person's primary experiences are in popular music heard on the radio (about three minutes long), they will have heard the terms "song" and "tune" used quite a bit, and these could refer to vocal or instrumental music. The term "number" isn't used as much as it was in an earlier era. If a person's primary experiences are in classical music (which, except songs, are generally much longer than three minutes), they will generally hear music referred to as "piece" or by terms like "sonata, "concerto," "chorale," "song," and "string quartet." When music is excerpted from a larger work, the term "theme from ..." is commonly used. Other genres of music will each have their own common terminology.

 

[JKJ]

I forgot to mention Felex Mendelssohn's famous set of dozens of short compositions he eventually titled Songs Without Words (Lieder ohne Worte)

I learned several, my favorite was Opus 53 No.2, written in 3/4 time but distinctive with triplets in one hand often against eighth notes in the other, 3 against 2, for most of the "piece" - difficult for me at the time but a wonderful exercise. (At a recital the page turner flipped the page too soon but I had enough memorized to keep playing while telling her "too soon, wait, wait! OK, now!). This one was named, probably by some publishing wag, "Fleecy Clouds"

As for singing these "songs", Wikipedia relates that "Mendelssohn himself resisted attempts to interpret the songs too literally, and objected when his friend Marc-André Souchay sought to put words to them to make them literal: "What the music I love expresses to me, is not thought too indefinite to put into words, but on the contrary, too definite". (Mendelssohn's own italics)"

Songs Without Words - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

There are lots of recordings and videos if anyone is interested. Here's the first one of OP.53 No.2 that popped up (played by someone I'm not familiar with):


And the score, just for fun:

Op.53 No2

Download and print in PDF or MIDI free sheet music of Lieder ohne Worte, Op.53 - Felix Mendelssohn for Lieder Ohne Worte, Op.53 by Felix Mendelssohn arranged by ralba1110 for Piano (Solo)

musescore.com

JKJ

 

[vonodoon]

I have the reverse pet peeve. When people call songs "pieces"

 

[JerryPH]

For right or wrong, I make no distinction and arbitrarily use song, piece or number... it is all music to me.

My musical pet peeve are people trying to teach that are woefully inadequate at doing it, short of that I only ever have 2 pet peeves... people that cannot drive safely/properly and incompetence, which kind of wraps around towards my musical pet peeve.

That said, I try really hard to keep my opinions to myself, but every now and then, one slips out. Sorry about that... lol.

 

[JKJ]

people that cannot drive safely/properly

Once a girl playing with her phone passed me on the highway. A few seconds later I hear a loud SCREECH and see blue smoke coming from her tires from an emergency stop to keep from hitting a car waiting at a traffic light. She looked really rattled and I thought, "well, maybe she learned a lesson!

Nope, a little way down the road she caught up and passed me again, at a good clip, head down in her phone again.

 

[JerryPH]

Once a girl playing with her phone passed me on the highway. A few seconds later I hear a loud SCREECH and see blue smoke coming from her tires from an emergency stop to keep from hitting a car waiting at a traffic light. She looked really rattled and I thought, "well, maybe she learned a lesson!

Nope, a little way down the road she caught up and passed me again, at a good clip, head down in her phone again.

Sadly, Darwinism at it’s best

 

[dak]

Sadly, Darwinism at it’s best

Well, it's the pedestrians and bicyclists that are dying out here.

 

[JerryPH]

Well, it's the pedestrians and bicyclists that are dying out here.

I know, but one day that person won’t slam in to a biker but a wall or semi truck… issue resolved, that’s what I meant.

 

[dak]

I know, but one day that person won’t slam in to a biker but a wall or semi truck… issue resolved, that’s what I meant.

One could also surmise that Darwin works against cars without proper mobile phone cradles (and popup displays?) allowing for handless operation. Modern safety systems tend to give the car worse survival prospects than its driver.

 

[Zevy]

Well, it's the pedestrians and bicyclists that are dying out here.

I see too many pedestrians crossing the road with their heads in the cellphone as well.

 

[JKJ]

Well, it's the pedestrians and bicyclists that are dying out here.

That’s one reason, years ago, I switched from road to off-road motorcycles. No chance of a driver darting out from the side or coming over into my lane. Off-road hazards like steep gullies, loose rocks, deep water crossings, and surprise animal encounters are less likely to result in the ER or the morgue. And the deer are paying attention to their surroundings instead of social media.

 

[Tom]

That’s one reason, years ago, I switched from road to off-road motorcycles. No chance of a driver darting out from the side or coming over into my lane. Off-road hazards like steep gullies, loose rocks, deep water crossings, and surprise animal encounters are less likely to result in the ER or the morgue. And the deer are paying attention to their surroundings instead of social media.

Unfortunately around here the deer are not paying enough attention which is a major problem. Activity starting next month will help (and be tasty) but will not be enough.

 

[JKJ]

Unfortunately around here the deer are not paying enough attention which is a major problem. Activity starting next month will help (and be tasty) but will not be enough.

True, at times deer often don't pay enough attention when crossing a road with vehicle traffic.

However, in my experience adult deer appear to be hyper-aware when someone is moving through their domain (the woods, fields, etc) by foot, on bike, motorcycle, or other off road vehicle. I often saw them moving or running away but never saw one dart out of the brush to cross the path in front of me.

During mating season, when stirred up during hunting season, or otherwise spooked, yes, they are a real problem for those in vehicles on roads. Even in the middle of the day but especially from evening, through the night, and in the morning. In my experience, the hazard is both in rural and residential areas. (I've never seen one running crazy through the middle of a city but I'm guessing someone has.)

The bottom line is the same: A wise driver stays alert. A distracted driver may have an unpleasant surprise.

Once in Alaska I saw the aftermath of a collision between a bull moose and a jeep. Looked to me like they both lost.

JKJ

 

[Tom]

True, at times deer often don't pay enough attention when crossing a road with vehicle traffic.

However, in my experience adult deer appear to be hyper-aware when someone is moving through their domain (the woods, fields, etc) by foot, on bike, motorcycle, or other off road vehicle. I often saw them moving or running away but never saw one dart out of the brush to cross the path in front of me.

During mating season, when stirred up during hunting season, or otherwise spooked, yes, they are a real problem for those in vehicles on roads. Even in the middle of the day but especially from evening, through the night, and in the morning. In my experience, the hazard is both in rural and residential areas. (I've never seen one running crazy through the middle of a city but I'm guessing someone has.)

The bottom line is the same: A wise driver stays alert. A distracted driver may have an unpleasant surprise.

Once in Alaska I saw the aftermath of a collision between a bull moose and a jeep. Looked to me like they both lost.

JKJ

Yeah, good points. I’ve totaled one fine vehicle due to deer collision in bright daylight. I agree with you, it’s when they run into the road completely oblivious to the traffic that is the problem. I could not imagine running into a moose or elk. Omg.

 

[dak]

Yeah, good points. I’ve totaled one fine vehicle due to deer collision in bright daylight. I agree with you, it’s when they run into the road completely oblivious to the traffic that is the problem. I could not imagine running into a moose or elk. Omg.

Yeah, I think it's a mistake that any John Doe can get a smartphone these days.

 

[Tom]

Yeah, I think it's a mistake that any John Doe can get a smartphone these days.

John Doe? Isn’t that an oxymoron? But I am open minded accordion player. If the doe wants to identify as John who am I to say?

 

[Dingo40]

Meanwhile, in Australia:

kangaroo vs car collisions in australia - Google Search

And:

Whilst driving long distances along country roads, almost daily, was part of my job for 40+ years and I often saw evidence of kangaroo vs car/truck impacts, luckily I myself connected with a kangaroo only once in all that time: the kangaroo bounced off the side of the car, while trying to cross the road. Luckily, no damage to either car or kangaroo!

 

[JKJ]

I'll add my "peeves", besides people who drive distracted:
- First, a real "pet" peeve. People who "own" pets, dogs, horses, whatever, and don't protect or take care of them.

- When someone plays music loud enough so the whole neighborhood can "enjoy" it. That was one reason I moved from the city to 27 acres in a rural area.

- Drivers, often of big pickup trucks, who think everyone should go THEIR preferred speed, regardless of the speed limit, get the heck out of their way quickly, and show their displeasure with hand gestures, screaming, horn honking, "rolling coal", and swerving into the lane to intimidate the "offender".

- People who shoot high powered rifles for fun late at night, sometimes with fully automatic weapons. Some months ago someone maybe a mile away shot nearly continuously with large-capacity magazines for almost two hours. He must have burned through $1000 of ammo.

- People who throw trash out their vehicle window. Their vehicles are probably nice and clean inside...


How about some "anti-peeves?"
- Those who are kind, thoughtful, respectful, hard-working, look for ways to help others, and generous with their time, abilities, and resources. Many of those are musicians!

JKJ