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Phil Cunningham: 3 + 3 Bass Set-up?

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Panya37

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I am trying (not for the first time) to figure out if Phil Cunningham has modified his bass side to a 3 + 3 set-up (i.e. three rows of single-note buttons, 3 rows of chords. Can anyone here throw any light on this?

In this video for instance, he seems to be playing single notes on the third row. I have tried to copy what he is doing on my normal stradella arrangement and cant replicate it. Am I going barmy and seeing things? Maybe I have got this wrong?
 
Don't know if "he modified" it. Accordions with a 3 + 3 setup are actually not that uncommon, especially in older days. I used to have a Crucianelli with this setup 30 years ago.
 
Stradella bass accordions have for years been made with different configurations that are popular with the region of accordionist's . The most popular is Standard of 2 bass rows a 4 chord rows. Of these variations there are 4 bass row configurations and 10 different bass mode design's . Phil is using a 3 row Belgium - root - 3rd - 3b - It's very handy for a walking bass and triad configurations but you lose the Dim. row of chords. These bass mode conifigurations can be chosen when ordering a new box but you have to learn to play the sradella pattern you chose. The line of "V" accordion's can switch to all 10 patterns with a flick of a switch.
 
Looks like a standard Stradella to me, all those bass lines are playable on mine; and that's not so say that I've his specific arrangement, but I've had a good look at some the more interesting runs and inversions in it.

Panya37, if you want to get to grips with this, I'd suggest that you learn to play {in this case) the scale of D on the LH with as many different fingerings as you can, and then combine them with (to start with) the three primary chords, in this case D, A and G. Hymns are are a great way to get to use interesting bass lines.
 
I appreciate all your replies.

Debra - Yes, I should have said I am trying to figure out if he had arranged for that set-up. I know he presently plays a Manfrini, and as I am heading for their showroom at the end of the year, it has now dawned on me that I could ask them directly what his set-up is. I am just curious.

JimD - please forgive my lack of knowledge, but by 3b do you mean the third, flattened by half a pitch?

BobM - thanks for the good advice; I have so much to learn!
 
Yes 3rd flat -- (b) Flat 1/2 pitch down (#) Sharp 1/2 pitch up
 
I have all my accordions with this arrangement. Very versatile.
 
Panya37 said:
I appreciate all your replies.

Debra - Yes, I should have said I am trying to figure out if he had arranged for that set-up. I know he presently plays a Manfrini, and as I am heading for their showroom at the end of the year, it has now dawned on me that I could ask them directly what his set-up is. I am just curious.

JimD - please forgive my lack of knowledge, but by 3b do you mean the third, flattened by half a pitch?

BobM - thanks for the good advice; I have so much to learn!
Click to expand...
Hi! Phil Cunningham here. I just joined today... My accordions are all standard
Stradella bass configuration. Im intrigued by the possibility of a 3/3 set up!!
Never heard of it until now!
Good luck with it all!!
Phil.
 
The 3+3 setup is not all that rare. Since there are only 3 rows of chords the chords are set up like with a good accordion with 80 basses. When you have 4 rows of chords the 7th is made of the 1+3+7 and the dimished is 1+3 minor + 7 dimished which is actually a normal 6. To make it clearer lets just look at C: C major has C E G, C minor has C Eb G, C7 has C E Bb and Cdim has C Eb A. If you have only 3 rows of chords a bad accordion will still have C7 as C E Bb and then you cannot make a dimished. But a good accordion will have C7 as E G Bb (missing the base note). As a result C7 works as Gdim, F7 works as Cdim, etc. So you can still form all the chords you want while with the 3+3 setup having more easily reachable single notes.
 
Well that's certainly cleared the matter up, Phil! :lol: Thanks. Now I know for sure that I can replicate that lovely arrangement it's just down to practice.

I do like the sound of the 3 + 3 layout, mind you. That's an excellent explanation, Debra.
 
debra said:
If you have only 3 rows of chords a bad accordion will still have C7 as C E Bb and then you cannot make a dimished. But a good accordion will have C7 as E G Bb (missing the base note). As a result C7 works as Gdim, F7 works as Cdim, etc. So you can still form all the chords you want while with the 3+3 setup having more easily reachable single notes.
Click to expand...

Including the 5th on the 7th chord stops you from being able to use a 7b5 chord, which sounds terrific in the right place. Id like the flat 3rd bass button, but only to help with chromatic lines, and I like the 7th and Dim as they are, and as Ive completed my spending on accordions now..

Im relieved that my observation that Phil C was using a standard Stradella was correct, I recognised the fingering he was using straight away.

BobM.
 
Best description I've seen so far of the 3+3 set-up.
I've tried to explain it umpteen times without this clarity. :(

Oh, and welcome Phil to the forum. Great to have you here.
 
Yes, welcome Phil! :D


In this instance having a b3rd bass note wouldn't have helped at all. Abide With Me is in a Major key and apart from one note in bar 7 the melody is diatonic. As it's possible to play a Major scale using the the maximum of 2 bass rows either side of the key centre at a point in the song, most, if not all relevant bass notes and short scales will be under the fingers. 1 major scale includes 6 other scales which can be used in total or in part to create bass line phrases.

Now, if "AWM" was in a minor key, that would be something else entirely..
 
Glenn said:
Best description Ive seen so far of the 3+3 set-up.
Click to expand...

What description do you refer to here?[/quote]
The one from Paul (debra) higher up the posts.
 
P.S. to BobM - I am also pleased you are right and I was mistaken - as someone owning an accordion with 'normal' stradella. I might need a new pair of glasses though! (actually, I DO need a new pair of glasses...) - the apparent use of the third row bamboozled me with this piece.

Your comments brought home to me the inadequacy of my present methods of learning. I can happily read sheet music but when trying to pick up pieces by ear, dimly-remembered musical theory from decades ago has led me to relying too much on just trying to copy bass fingering without familiarity with the structure behind the notes. You can only get so far with this approach and I now realise that some serious theory revision is required! I want to have the freedom that comes out of a sound knowledge of structure. So, thanks again for your suggestions, which have finally sunk home and been very helpful!
 
Panya37 said:
P.S. to BobM - I am also pleased you are right and I was mistaken - as someone owning an accordion with normal stradella. I might need a new pair of glasses though! (actually, I DO need a new pair of glasses...) - the apparent use of the third row bamboozled me with this piece.

Your comments brought home to me the inadequacy of my present methods of learning. I can happily read sheet music but when trying to pick up pieces by ear, dimly-remembered musical theory from decades ago has led me to relying too much on just trying to copy bass fingering without familiarity with the structure behind the notes. You can only get so far with this approach and I now realise that some serious theory revision is required! I want to have the freedom that comes out of a sound knowledge of structure. So, thanks again for your suggestions, which have finally sunk home and been very helpful!
Click to expand...

Panya, When I started with the accordion a few years back, I realised that there didnt seem to be a common shared language about constructing LH Stradella parts on the forums. There was a real resistance to discussing any point that needed a little theory, and theory seems to be a light bulb subject; its either on or its off. Carrying on this metaphor, this attitude is keeping a lot of accordionists in the dark.. (groan).

By learning and using standard terms, forum members could more easily benefit from each others topics and posts. If we think incrementally, and maybe aim for a couple of small gains now and then, these gains will be compounded because of the way that Stradella system does its job in a particular way.

Im willing to bet that there are many accordionists who dont understand the use of the / symbol on chord charts, which is a shame because it helps to create the kind of movement and musical interest that sparked this topic.

Alway happy to help on this topic, and thanks for the feedback. :D

BobM.
 
Perhaps you'd like to start a "music theory for accordionists" thread Bob?
 
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