Same problem on FR7, 7X, 8X! Crazy!

[CPezMusic]

Thank you guys for All the info and the Ideas!

So to answer your question Giovanni - No - Steve Albini is realistically NO LONGER with ROLAND. Steve and I were waiting years for when Roland would finally cut him, as you could just feel by the way he was treated that he was worth nothing more than a paper clip, and the female who shall not be named would win the 6 year long game of the hit reality series "Survivor: Roland". Dennis Houlihan was voted off the island in 2010, then so many others, then I was voted off the island in 2011, then all the DSM's in a shocking move in late 2011, and on and on. But she finally has won it. Before Steve could Finally (after years of wanting to tell them all off) Actually Tell them all off in the days after being let go, they offered him to be just "demoted" from the head of Accoridons as he was since shortly after Ron Lankford's death, to the 1 Product Specialist they would have. He decided to take them up on this one trip (which Jim talked about in going to Falchetti's) which will have a few stops, but this will be over soon as they didn't even invite him to the NAMM show. So the real answer is, "No, he isn't". Once Steve is gone from there fully, I can then finally talk more freely about WHAT ACTUALLY went on from 2008-2015/2016 at Roland, with going from the Accordions' Best Friend, and my (and others) Weapon against the Accordion World's 70 year old beliefs to make the Accordion Cool again, to when Roland became more of an Enemy to the Accordion than a friend. But that's a whole other issue.

 

[kep]

Cory,

Please speak up! This is an issue we need to be aware of, as we Roland accordion players are shortsighted of the instrument's perspective, progress, and limits.

Regards,
Kep

 

[CPezMusic]

I've Got the Answer!! At least for now....

It was F1 Fuse. If you have the schematics. F1. A $1 fuse. I always knew it was going to be a "2 Cent Part" as we say in Racing. A HUGE Thanks to Dave's Accordions (In LA) Son Dave for figuring it out. I have played the accordion about 2 weeks and 12 Hours, and no problems so far. Bass is perfect, and No Sticking. Maybe a going old Fuse is the Reason it started going crazy, and then it just finally went. BUT - Dave said he thinks what Caused the Fuse to start to go was From the Left Side. So, we still don't really have a Total answer. Will update soon.

Musically -

Cory
{}

 

[Glenn]

Thanks for the feedback Cory. How did Dave guess it was a fuse? Not an obvious thing to check unless it fails totally and then it's not a question of being intermittent but rather permanent.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Nuuksu]

If it was resettable fuse then there must be or was or something triggers short circuit somewhere until fuse gave completely up. Cleaning plugs and contacts may help to avoid shorts in future. Closely inspecting cables is also very good ieda, especially those that are bent, there may be micro cracks on insulation. This issue is common on mic cables - they seem to be normal and usually don't have shorts but only in certain angle. Humid weather may wake up chemical leftovers on places where they shouldn't be. Water condensation may occour when moving from one place to another and between them is more than 10 degree difference and air is very humid.

 

[pentaprism]

It was F1 Fuse.

Fuse F1 in the DC-DC Converter?

Thats interesting. I thought that if that fuse was blown, the accordion would be dead.

 

[Alan Sharkis]

Sometimes lessons are learned the hard way.

I know somebody who has two Roland accordions, a 4X and an 8X. In both cases, he ordered the accordions with extra Roland power supplies.

Alan

 

[JerryPH]

Pentaprism, what I'd like to know is where you got those pictures from? I'd love to have a service manual for my 8x! :b

 

[pentaprism]

Id love to have a service manual for my 8x! :b

Cant help you with that, Jerry. Check your PM.

 

[Keymn]

I just received a fr4x 2 days ago. Played a day and lo and behold, had 2 problems.

1. It would not turn off, had to disconnect the power cord
2. One of the bass chords stuck on. Just kept hitting them and it unstuck. I think this was more of a mechanical issue?

This only occurred one time. Will have to monitor this.

Never had a problem with my fr7. I think I will keep it for awhile as a backup.

 

[CPezMusic]

So Far I have played it for almost 2 months, and quite a lot. Still no problems except for 1 time when 1 note on the Right hand stuck until I hit it again. That's still what I would call "Usual Roland Accordion Issues". But that's only once. My crazy lighting system still working great as well.

Now Nuuksu said "Humid weather may wake up chemical leftovers on places where they shouldn't be. Water condensation may occour when moving from one place to another and between them is more than 10 degree difference and air is very humid." and I still think this could have Something to do with the problem I had. One of the First pieces of data I had when the problem began, ws it Always seemed to happen when it was raining out, or just rained, or was humid. This in the end didn't correlate with the problem, but I am still convinced that has Something to do with it. Because we all have to remember - Even though I Found the "Problem" that caused the Left Hand to not work, and with it, the initial problem of the Left Hand electronically sticking is also gone (that being F1 fuse)....

...that still does not answer WHY F1 fuse went out. And also doesn't answer that F1 had to do with my basses sticking randfomly. A Fuse is a Yes it Works or No it Doesn't Work thing. My problem for 8 months was an intermittent one. So the Real question is - What caused F1 to become faulty and blow. Something is odd with the Left Hand.

 

[CPezMusic]

Youve hit a lot of great points here. Also when you mention Humid Weather / Water Condensation. Remember that when this problem first arose as an intermittent electronic stick on the bass, 2 of the instances involved a day with Rain, and me being outside.

Remember this story here though guys - I fixed both accordions as it was F1 in both BUT: We still dont know WHAT caused F1 to die and what caused the intermittent sticking problems before F1 died. Its clearly something on the left hand. So the question is still there.

If it was resettable fuse then there must be or was or something triggers short circuit somewhere until fuse gave completely up. Cleaning plugs and contacts may help to avoid shorts in future. Closely inspecting cables is also very good ieda, especially those that are bent, there may be micro cracks on insulation. This issue is common on mic cables - they seem to be normal and usually dont have shorts but only in certain angle. Humid weather may wake up chemical leftovers on places where they shouldnt be. Water condensation may occour when moving from one place to another and between them is more than 10 degree difference and air is very humid.

 

[Keymn]

Hi Guys!

Cory Pesaturo here, first time on here. I have encountered a problem on my Famous Flamed 7X that I modified, and have now seen Very similar issues with my old FR7, 2 other 7Xs, and an 8X in the months of using other peoples accordions. Totally Crazy. So heres the story, as Im searching like a Mad Man to find out WHAT in the World is going on. Plus considering theres almost No one in the world that knows all ins and outs of these accordions, its finding a needle in a heystack.

Around 1 year ago, at a MAJOR major gig playing for RedBull at a Formula 1 Race, my left hand basses (a mix of both the single notes and chords) began randomly sticking. Electronically sticking, not physically. I have seen on many Rolands in the past where you hit a note on the left hand, and it keeps playing UNTIL you hit the same note again. That you can mask while playing / improvising. But this was a situation where the note keeps paying until you shut the accordion off. Which is unmistakable when playing in Public. So I thought at first of course, it was just the left hand bass. I quickly went to my last remaining Roland contact and got another bass section (Not the whole left hand, just the bass board itself of course). The accordion had Zero problems for 6 months. Thought I fixed it.
Then, all of a sudden, it starts doing it again, at Another High end concert those 6 months later. I now figured it had to do with the humidity, as the accordion Always seemed to be doing this when it was raining or near water. But that didnt seem right. So I figured it was my bass panel pushing against some wires on the left hand. So I took the panel off to play a concert, and it worked. THought I had the problem somewhat figured. I didnt. Next someone said to change the wire that runs from the right to the left hand seeing as it moves a lot and could be damaged. I switched it from my Black 7X to my Flamed 7X. It worked for a week again, thought I fixed it. But no. So odd that everytime I did something totally random, it would work for a while.
When the accordion started doing this again after the internal wire change, THIS time.... it was a bigger issue. The right hand stuck as well. So instead of turning it off and on again to re-test, I hit Set to change sets and see if it would keep doing it. Normally it would so I was just doing the same test I normally would. The right hand stopped sticking and played normally, but the left hand, didnt work. Nothing. Turned the accordion off and on, and the left hand still didnt work. Its like I Shorted / Blew something when I clicked Set Over while the left hand was sticking.
I took the accordion to the best engineers I knew, computer / circuit board guys. We quickly figured out that the left hand was totally fine, also meaning the Bass board I bought was not necasarry, as my old bass board was fine. The problem.... existed somewhere in the Main circuit boards on the right hand. Now - While with these guys, and checking continuity on my fully working Black 7X to see the diffreences between that one and my now half-broken Flamed &X, all with a Voltmeter, something went wrong, and the Black one now had the SAME exact problem as the Flamed one. The Left Hand Switches and Bass notes didnt work, but the Speaker did (which makes sense because its on a different wire. Crazy Right!?!? I only presume the problem of the left hand notes and switches not working is Fully associated with it not working at all, but now the black one we somehow busted while working on it, but same problem in the end.
Now Cory Pesaturo has No 7Xs to play haha, and I HATE the 8X for a Multitude of reasons. So I borrowed a friends 8X for a Huge Concert I had with an orchestra, and would you believe it - THE BASSES STUCK!! Randomly, but it didnt persist. Kind of a 2nd level bad, but not 3rd. 1st level is where you can just hit the notes that are sticking and theyll stop then. Heres an example of that performance. Check out 5:09-5:11 in this video, and you will hear what it was doing Randomly all day. Note this was a NEW 8X!! -
THEN, because I couldnt borrow this guys accordion every other day, I pulled out my old FR7 to do some gigs while looking for a 7X to use for the time being. After playing the 7X for 2 weeks, BAM I one time just for 1 second, caught a bass chord I played sticking. Just a second, but it did it. So Now - Ive seen sticking problems on the 7, 7X and 8X!! But it gets better. Roxys Music, Rose specifically, the nicest person in the accordion world I think, gave me a deal of which I will not disclose, but basically Giving me a 7X for Free until I fix mine. She really is the Sweetest. So I just went out to LA for a week, and did tons of gigs, and came back to a concert last night here. In the 10 days Ive used this, the Right hand had the First level stickedge that I mentioned, where twice the right hand randomly stuck until I hit the note that was sticking again. And this is a Barely used 7X. So now, 3 7Xs, a 7, and an 8X... ALL WITH THIS Sticking Problem.

Does anyone... ANYONE... have Any Idea what this could be, so that we can Inform Roland, and also I can figure out WHAT I need to fix on my 2 Completely broken 7Xs. I will buy whoever figures this out Multiple 5 Star Dinner Meals and a Free Concert haha. Seriously though! I know many of the engineers in Italy that Created this, and even they with the language barrier cant quite figure it out.

Thanks Guys!

Process of elimination. What do you do different then most accordionist that play a V? You do stellar things with your bellows and bass. Something I will never accomplish.

 

[Keymn]

Hi Guys!

Cory Pesaturo here, first time on here. I have encountered a problem on my Famous Flamed 7X that I modified, and have now seen Very similar issues with my old FR7, 2 other 7Xs, and an 8X in the months of using other peoples accordions. Totally Crazy. So heres the story, as Im searching like a Mad Man to find out WHAT in the World is going on. Plus considering theres almost No one in the world that knows all ins and outs of these accordions, its finding a needle in a heystack.

Around 1 year ago, at a MAJOR major gig playing for RedBull at a Formula 1 Race, my left hand basses (a mix of both the single notes and chords) began randomly sticking. Electronically sticking, not physically. I have seen on many Rolands in the past where you hit a note on the left hand, and it keeps playing UNTIL you hit the same note again. That you can mask while playing / improvising. But this was a situation where the note keeps paying until you shut the accordion off. Which is unmistakable when playing in Public. So I thought at first of course, it was just the left hand bass. I quickly went to my last remaining Roland contact and got another bass section (Not the whole left hand, just the bass board itself of course). The accordion had Zero problems for 6 months. Thought I fixed it.
Then, all of a sudden, it starts doing it again, at Another High end concert those 6 months later. I now figured it had to do with the humidity, as the accordion Always seemed to be doing this when it was raining or near water. But that didnt seem right. So I figured it was my bass panel pushing against some wires on the left hand. So I took the panel off to play a concert, and it worked. THought I had the problem somewhat figured. I didnt. Next someone said to change the wire that runs from the right to the left hand seeing as it moves a lot and could be damaged. I switched it from my Black 7X to my Flamed 7X. It worked for a week again, thought I fixed it. But no. So odd that everytime I did something totally random, it would work for a while.
When the accordion started doing this again after the internal wire change, THIS time.... it was a bigger issue. The right hand stuck as well. So instead of turning it off and on again to re-test, I hit Set to change sets and see if it would keep doing it. Normally it would so I was just doing the same test I normally would. The right hand stopped sticking and played normally, but the left hand, didnt work. Nothing. Turned the accordion off and on, and the left hand still didnt work. Its like I Shorted / Blew something when I clicked Set Over while the left hand was sticking.
I took the accordion to the best engineers I knew, computer / circuit board guys. We quickly figured out that the left hand was totally fine, also meaning the Bass board I bought was not necasarry, as my old bass board was fine. The problem.... existed somewhere in the Main circuit boards on the right hand. Now - While with these guys, and checking continuity on my fully working Black 7X to see the diffreences between that one and my now half-broken Flamed &X, all with a Voltmeter, something went wrong, and the Black one now had the SAME exact problem as the Flamed one. The Left Hand Switches and Bass notes didnt work, but the Speaker did (which makes sense because its on a different wire. Crazy Right!?!? I only presume the problem of the left hand notes and switches not working is Fully associated with it not working at all, but now the black one we somehow busted while working on it, but same problem in the end.
Now Cory Pesaturo has No 7Xs to play haha, and I HATE the 8X for a Multitude of reasons. So I borrowed a friends 8X for a Huge Concert I had with an orchestra, and would you believe it - THE BASSES STUCK!! Randomly, but it didnt persist. Kind of a 2nd level bad, but not 3rd. 1st level is where you can just hit the notes that are sticking and theyll stop then. Heres an example of that performance. Check out 5:09-5:11 in this video, and you will hear what it was doing Randomly all day. Note this was a NEW 8X!! -
THEN, because I couldnt borrow this guys accordion every other day, I pulled out my old FR7 to do some gigs while looking for a 7X to use for the time being. After playing the 7X for 2 weeks, BAM I one time just for 1 second, caught a bass chord I played sticking. Just a second, but it did it. So Now - Ive seen sticking problems on the 7, 7X and 8X!! But it gets better. Roxys Music, Rose specifically, the nicest person in the accordion world I think, gave me a deal of which I will not disclose, but basically Giving me a 7X for Free until I fix mine. She really is the Sweetest. So I just went out to LA for a week, and did tons of gigs, and came back to a concert last night here. In the 10 days Ive used this, the Right hand had the First level stickedge that I mentioned, where twice the right hand randomly stuck until I hit the note that was sticking again. And this is a Barely used 7X. So now, 3 7Xs, a 7, and an 8X... ALL WITH THIS Sticking Problem.

Does anyone... ANYONE... have Any Idea what this could be, so that we can Inform Roland, and also I can figure out WHAT I need to fix on my 2 Completely broken 7Xs. I will buy whoever figures this out Multiple 5 Star Dinner Meals and a Free Concert haha. Seriously though! I know many of the engineers in Italy that Created this, and even they with the language barrier cant quite figure it out.

Thanks Guys!

</QUOTE>

 

[Giovanni]

Hi Cory ,so sorry to read that you are still having problems with your Roland accordions !
This situation is just dreadful !!!
What are Roland doing to help you ? they should be very concerned ....they have all the technical know how in this huge musical corporation .
Years ago I had probs with a roland rhythm machine ....I took it to the roland UK headquarters and went into their service dept and the engineer hooked it up to some sort of electronic system checker device and it found the fault !!
Surely Roland must still have this ability for their products .......or in their research /tech/design dept . you must have access to or at least know someone who can help !!

Have you talked to Paul Pasquali in Salt Lake City ???
If all else fails .....dump the Roland ........try another make !!
Have you tried the Concerto ??
just my thoughts .......thank you for keeping us all informed ,,,,,,Good Luck

Giovanni

 

[Keymn]

Hi Guys!

Cory Pesaturo here, first time on here. I have encountered a problem on my Famous Flamed 7X that I modified, and have now seen Very similar issues with my old FR7, 2 other 7Xs, and an 8X in the months of using other peoples accordions. Totally Crazy. So heres the story, as Im searching like a Mad Man to find out WHAT in the World is going on. Plus considering theres almost No one in the world that knows all ins and outs of these accordions, its finding a needle in a heystack.

Around 1 year ago, at a MAJOR major gig playing for RedBull at a Formula 1 Race, my left hand basses (a mix of both the single notes and chords) began randomly sticking. Electronically sticking, not physically. I have seen on many Rolands in the past where you hit a note on the left hand, and it keeps playing UNTIL you hit the same note again. That you can mask while playing / improvising. But this was a situation where the note keeps paying until you shut the accordion off. Which is unmistakable when playing in Public. So I thought at first of course, it was just the left hand bass. I quickly went to my last remaining Roland contact and got another bass section (Not the whole left hand, just the bass board itself of course). The accordion had Zero problems for 6 months. Thought I fixed it.
Then, all of a sudden, it starts doing it again, at Another High end concert those 6 months later. I now figured it had to do with the humidity, as the accordion Always seemed to be doing this when it was raining or near water. But that didnt seem right. So I figured it was my bass panel pushing against some wires on the left hand. So I took the panel off to play a concert, and it worked. THought I had the problem somewhat figured. I didnt. Next someone said to change the wire that runs from the right to the left hand seeing as it moves a lot and could be damaged. I switched it from my Black 7X to my Flamed 7X. It worked for a week again, thought I fixed it. But no. So odd that everytime I did something totally random, it would work for a while.
When the accordion started doing this again after the internal wire change, THIS time.... it was a bigger issue. The right hand stuck as well. So instead of turning it off and on again to re-test, I hit Set to change sets and see if it would keep doing it. Normally it would so I was just doing the same test I normally would. The right hand stopped sticking and played normally, but the left hand, didnt work. Nothing. Turned the accordion off and on, and the left hand still didnt work. Its like I Shorted / Blew something when I clicked Set Over while the left hand was sticking.
I took the accordion to the best engineers I knew, computer / circuit board guys. We quickly figured out that the left hand was totally fine, also meaning the Bass board I bought was not necasarry, as my old bass board was fine. The problem.... existed somewhere in the Main circuit boards on the right hand. Now - While with these guys, and checking continuity on my fully working Black 7X to see the diffreences between that one and my now half-broken Flamed &X, all with a Voltmeter, something went wrong, and the Black one now had the SAME exact problem as the Flamed one. The Left Hand Switches and Bass notes didnt work, but the Speaker did (which makes sense because its on a different wire. Crazy Right!?!? I only presume the problem of the left hand notes and switches not working is Fully associated with it not working at all, but now the black one we somehow busted while working on it, but same problem in the end.
Now Cory Pesaturo has No 7Xs to play haha, and I HATE the 8X for a Multitude of reasons. So I borrowed a friends 8X for a Huge Concert I had with an orchestra, and would you believe it - THE BASSES STUCK!! Randomly, but it didnt persist. Kind of a 2nd level bad, but not 3rd. 1st level is where you can just hit the notes that are sticking and theyll stop then. Heres an example of that performance. Check out 5:09-5:11 in this video, and you will hear what it was doing Randomly all day. Note this was a NEW 8X!! -
THEN, because I couldnt borrow this guys accordion every other day, I pulled out my old FR7 to do some gigs while looking for a 7X to use for the time being. After playing the 7X for 2 weeks, BAM I one time just for 1 second, caught a bass chord I played sticking. Just a second, but it did it. So Now - Ive seen sticking problems on the 7, 7X and 8X!! But it gets better. Roxys Music, Rose specifically, the nicest person in the accordion world I think, gave me a deal of which I will not disclose, but basically Giving me a 7X for Free until I fix mine. She really is the Sweetest. So I just went out to LA for a week, and did tons of gigs, and came back to a concert last night here. In the 10 days Ive used this, the Right hand had the First level stickedge that I mentioned, where twice the right hand randomly stuck until I hit the note that was sticking again. And this is a Barely used 7X. So now, 3 7Xs, a 7, and an 8X... ALL WITH THIS Sticking Problem.

Does anyone... ANYONE... have Any Idea what this could be, so that we can Inform Roland, and also I can figure out WHAT I need to fix on my 2 Completely broken 7Xs. I will buy whoever figures this out Multiple 5 Star Dinner Meals and a Free Concert haha. Seriously though! I know many of the engineers in Italy that Created this, and even they with the language barrier cant quite figure it out.

Thanks Guys!

I have the service manual for FR7. If you want, I can send a copy. It has some interesting technician setup points.</QUOTE></QUOTE>

 

[Ciganyfiu]

Hi there,
Just came across this thread; understand this is over a year old but wanted to raise the same issue. Just purchased my brand new Roland FR 4X. Within a week of using it with the original power supply provided with accordion, the whole accordion 'froze' i.e. couldn't navigate through any of the menu option, change accordion sets or turn it off with the power button. The only thing left was to unplug it from the power supply. A week later I too have experienced the 'sticky' note issue on one of the treble keys. Hitting the same key again solved the problem. So far I had no issues with the bass side.
As I understand the FR 4X is the latest of the V Accordion series, it is worth mentioning because obviously the same problem persists. I have not taken the accordion out anywhere yet, always used the provided power supply plugged in. Only thing I had to change was the cord that plugs into the wall socket and to the DC power supply, as mine came with the European wall plug. I found the exact cord that suits Australian wall plugs 240V 15mA rated, so should not have any issues.
Anyone came up with a solution yet?

 

[Keymn]

I had a problem where the power button would not shut off the unit. Had to unplug it remove battery cover.
That was a year ago. I did reload everything to factory. Never had it froze up yet. But my Korg PA3x keyboard would do it sometimes and just had to reboot. Roland has been real good in answering any issues, so far with me.

Always have a backup. If my accordion broke down, then play keyboard and vice versa. I very seldom use power supply, always mobile so may not have a problem occur? check the simple stuff, like loose power chord, etc.
Unfortunately, intermittent problems are always a pain to solve.
Wish you the best on this. Now I will have to turn it over to the experts...

 

[maugein96]

As I understand the FR 4X is the latest of the V Accordion series, it is worth mentioning because obviously the same problem persists.

Hi,

I joined the forum nearly four years ago because for some time I had been considering taking the plunge with a digital accordion.

I was looking for opinions on them, as I had read about all sorts of problems relating to just about every make, not just Roland.

Due to the number of posts like those in this thread I decided to stay with acoustic boxes.

If my acoustic box breaks down, chances are I might be able to find a repairer within 1000 miles of where I live. If I had bought a Roland it seems that maybe only one guy in the world would have any clue how to fix it.

Roland have flooded the market with digital accordions, and many music stores who never previously stocked accordions now do so on account of that. That has to be a good thing for the instrument.

Is it possible that when they made them they hadnt reckoned with all the bangs and bumps accordions suffer when they are being played, and moved in and out of their cases? When an accordion is being played parts of the instrument are in constant motion, so electrical malfunction is almost guaranteed to happen at some point. Im guessing that the component parts need to be sourced as cheaply as possible to keep the cost to the consumer down, and perhaps thats where the real issue lies?

It seems that digital accordion technology needs to advance to the stage where the delicate circuitry required to operate them needs to be beefed up and/or simplified so that it can be readily understood. That way any common faults can be identified and rectified by many individuals rather than just a very few.

If that were the case, more of us would probably buy them. They are now working out cheaper than their acoustic equivalents in some cases, but some of us are possibly justified in thinking there could be good reason for that.

This post is not intended as a criticism of those who play digital boxes. Like I say Id probably be playing one myself if they were a bit more reliable.

 

[Geronimo]

Is it possible that when they made them they hadnt reckoned with all the bangs and bumps accordions suffer when they are being played, and moved in and out of their cases? When an accordion is being played parts of the instrument are in constant motion, so electrical malfunction is almost guaranteed to happen at some point. Im guessing that the component parts need to be sourced as cheaply as possible to keep the cost to the consumer down, and perhaps thats where the real issue lies?

Frankly, the issues here sound to me like what youd expect for dropped Midi off events, possibly caused by bouncing contacts triggering too many messages or the Midi processor being overwhelmed.

Of course there is no obvious reason Midi should even be involved inside of a Roland accordion, but it may well be that key/Midi processing and sound generation are compartmentalized into separate units in the instrument with similar messages and thus the effects of a dropped message can materialize even here.

Of course, a button/contact being broken to the extend that it never delivers an off signal once it gets stuck is also a possibility but to me it sounds more like a problem with internal communication.