What are the Skills of A Good PA Player

[Pianoman1]

Just had another lesson which was gruelling and rewarding My teacher hammers at me for various things

I would be interested in a forum view of what constitutes a good set of skills for a competent solo or band player

This would be useful to me as a benchmark to aspire to
Thanks

 

[debra]

Just had another lesson which was gruelling and rewarding My teacher hammers at me for various things

I would be interested in a forum view of what constitutes a good set of skills for a competent solo or band player

This would be useful to me as a benchmark to aspire to
Thanks

A lot of the learning process is just finger and hand technique so you hit the notes right and learn to play on time, in the right rhythm, etc.
But when it comes to accordion (PA and CBA alike) there are only three things that REALLY matter: bellows control, bellows control and bellows control.
That makes for the difference between just an accordion player and being a musician (using the accordion).

 

[Anyanka]

For a band player, the most important skill has to be listening to others! Other than that, the left hand requires special attention; I have met a lot of players who do great things with their right, only to underpin it with relentless oom-pah from the bass.

 

[JerryPH]

This is what I would consider the beginnings of a good PA player in this video:


Mastery of the basics of the right hand, dexterity, speed, accuracy. I would say the same of the left hand. Though important, bellows control is not easy, but of the three, it is the easiest to learn and master, you just need to be aware of it and learn to basically not chop notes in the middle. The bellows is also the tool we mostly inject emotion into our music with.

Thats all the technical stuff. Something equally important is emotion and being able to transfer what is in your heart through your arms into the accordion and generate the feelings that this piece you are playing demands. For some this happens naturally. For people like me, I have to work so much harder at that than any technical exercise I would want to master.

 

[Buttons]

Rhythm?

 

[Anyanka]

Rhythm is absolutely totally essential, but are we (i.e. is Pianoman) looking for skills specific to the accordion rather than general musical skills?

 

[JerryPH]

I am going to add a skill that I think would be important, but not so obviously evident, and on top of it, I stole it from someone else (sorry I forgot who mentioned it):
"Grim Determination". :twisted:

It happens fairly often that one feels frustration, and sometimes, if you lack that determination to push through the harder parts, there is the danger that you just give up and stop playing all together.

Don't.

In everything that we do, we'll hit plateaus, and the higher you get, the harder those plateaus are to break through. Only the most determined succeed to reach the higher levels.

 

[george garside]

I agree totally with Paul about bellows control - too many supposedly proficient box players just treat the bellwos as a bloody great air pump!

I would also chuck in 'listening to what you are playing' as well as listening to what others ( in a band) are playing. Many good readers assume that what they are reading is coming out of the box - it may need some very subtle adjustmnets to sound realy good. Same goes for by earists who asuume because they 'know' a tune it will automatically sound good - again subtle on the hoof adjustemnts can improve matters considerably.

The ability to play a rhythm that will make feet tap unconcioulsy is also a skill to be worked at and doesn't apply just to dance music. All music has a rhythm as otherwise it wouldn't be music be it 3/4 ,4/4 ,6/8 pr whatever.

And a of course all the advice contained in this thread apply to all accordions, not just piano boxes ( eg piano , continental chromatic, British chromatic, 1 and 2 row melodeons)

george

 

[losthobos]

A sense of self depreciating humour....essential

 

[Kim at the Stack]

I agree with Paul - determination! And bellows control, which I really have to work at because I'm 5'1" with somewhat short arms.

 

[Pianoman1]

Apart from bellows control - very light keyboard pressure is also important to create a good sound according to God my teacher
Pianists have to learn to restrain the finger pressure IT IS NOT THE SAME AS PLAYING ~THE PIANO playing the PA

The more I learn the more I think it is like singing - the bellows being the lungs and diaphragm

I am now trying to learn a tune a day - simple 3 - 4 chords things but memorise them Not easy and a grind but
I am in love with playing the box and want to play stuff properly

 

[george garside]

on a piano its how you PRESS the keys that matters as it provides the appropriate velocity to hit a wire with a hammer. On a box (they are not all piano boxes!) its how you RELEASE the key or button that matters as that controls the length or shut off point of a note or group of notes.

The keyh or button on an accordion is merely an on/off switch and once it is pressed even by a relativelysmall amount it lifts a lid (palette) of a hole. Lifting the lid further does not increase the volume as the volume is controlled entirely by bellows PRESSure or ''PULLsure''! .

Hence the importance of bellows control as mentioned by several of us in this thread.

george

 

[debra]

...
The keyh or button on an accordion is merely an on/off switch and once it is pressed even by a relativelysmall amount it lifts a lid (palette) of a hole. Lifting the lid further does not increase the volume as the volume is controlled entirely by bellows PRESSure or ''PULLsure''! .

The notion of the key merely being an on/off switch is too simple. There are several situations where the way you press or release a key influences the start and ending of the tone. And partly releasing the key in combination with the bellows control results in tone bending. Skilled players can let a tone start lower and go up, much like can be done more easily on the harmonica. They can "bend a note" down by half a note or sometimes even a whole note or more, by carefully controlling that "valve" and the bellows pressure. On a PA this works best on the white keys and on a CBA it is best on the first row of buttons. In playing staccato again the way the note is "touched" can create different sound (in combination with the bellows)...
Our instrument is just so versatile that everything matters.

 

[JerryPH]

The notion of the key merely being an on/off switch is too simple.

Indeed! Ksenija Sidorova has a neat trick she does... she plays a single extended note and gets it to modulate almost a tone and a half if not more by regulating both valve lift and amount of air that passes through the reed! She does it in at least 3 videos that I have seen of her on YouTube.

Edit:
Found one sample of her doing this... go to 4.45 of this video, she does it at 4:48-ish.

 

[Glenn]

It's not difficult to do but is difficult to control.

 

[JerryPH]

Yes, but the point is that it's not just an on/off switch, there is range to be had if you want/need in a single key press.

BTW, it may not be hard, but I have never done it to date... ever! Never even knew I was possible before earlier this year... lol

 

[debra]

Yes, but the point is that its not just an on/off switch, there is range to be had if you want/need in a single key press.

BTW, it may not be hard, but I have never done it to date... ever! Never even knew I was possible before earlier this year... lol

In my arrangement of Milonga del Angel by Piazzolla I have the second voice play a low A for a whole measure and then it needs to be bent down to Gis which needs to sound for a whole measure, and this repeats 4 times.
You can hear it being done in http://www.de-bra.nl/arrangements/milonga-del-angel-parts.pdf ). This is quite fun to do, but hard on the Bugari accordion I use for it. The reeds used are an important factor. Tone bending is often done to a larger extent with Russian bayans. Ksenija does it on the Pigini which is harder than on a bayan (but a bit easier than on a Bugari).

 

[george garside]

...
! .

The notion of the key merely being an on/off switch is too simple. There are several situations where the way you press or release a key influences the start and ending of the tone. And partly releasing the key in combination with the bellows control results in tone bending. Skilled players can let a tone start lower and go up, much like can be done more easily on the harmonica. Our instrument is just so versatile that everything matters.

I quite agree that an experienced player an press/release the keys in different ways to good effect. I was simply making the point for a relative beginner coming from a piano background that there is a fundamental difference between how the keys on a piano and an accordion are used/operated

There is a world of difference between what beginners need to get their heads round to get on the right track and what can be achieved after many years of playing tuition and practice

george.

 

[debra]

...
I quite agree that an experienced player an press/release the keys in different ways to good effect. I was simply making the point for a relative beginner coming from a piano background that there is a fundamental difference between how the keys on a piano and an accordion are used/operated
...

I fully agree, coming from a piano background for 5 years before adding the accordion and playing both for many many years (and now the accordion almost exclusively): the use of the keyboard is so different it is actually hard to not have the piano technique harm the accordion technique. (To some extent the reverse is also a problem.) On the accordion I sometimes still "hammer" the keys too hard and on the piano I tend to hold my left wrist too high.
But I discovered that the key to success on both is to not play the same songs on both. The same is true for the PA and CBA: I can play both quite well now but I sometimes get confused when I try to play the same song on both. With the PA and piano it's not just a matter of the "attack" but also a matter of the width of the keys.

 

[Pianoman1]

Interesting discussion here I am already playing a different set of tunes on the PA than I do on the piano
I have to have sets for acoustic - jazz - classical and folk guitar as well

Life is full