What Tuner & Suitable Tuning Bellows

[the boxman]

Hi

I have picked up an old accordion purely for the purpose of experimenting with the black art of tuning. I have looked at various tuners and i found this one Korg LCA 120 Tuner has anyone had any experiences of using this particular tuner for tuning reeds.

I will also need to make a tuning table, do you need to use a full size set of bellows or will a set of bellows from say a 48 base sized accordion be ok.

 

[TomBR]

For tuning reeds while they're off the reed blocks, and for tuning the reeds on the block but not in the accordion, almost any size of bellows will do. When it comes to tuning with the blocks fitted in the respective end of the accordion, it makes life easier if the bellows are equal to, or bigger than, those of your accordion, but there are ways round this with more woodwork.

By making a (plywood) end plate for the bellows of your old accordion, secured by its own bellows pins, you can use the accordion's own bellows for the reed plate and reed block tuning, then do final tuning in the complete accordion - the last stage will just be slower than with separate bellows.


I haven't owned a Korg tuner but friends who do say they are very good.
That one looks more expensive than I'd have thought necessary.

Good luck!
Tom

 

[artelagro]

I think this could be a very popular topic. Many of us want to dabble in tuning an oldie but what equipment is needed? There are tuners available costing only a few pounds and, being electronic, will be very consistent. Others can cost hundreds so the amateur is left baffled, especially when we see Youtube videos of Italian and German factories using simple equipment in the form of basic reference tables made from old accordions or similar. I am sure I saw one factory where the tuner put the reed block up to his mouth and blew or sooked. In almost all cases, the final tuning is done by ear, by their master tuner. I am not going to spend years becoming a master tuner so let’s keep things in perspective.

My first tuning table was made from an old accordion and the accompanying ‘modern’ software ran on my PC. As my stock expanded but the room space remained the same, something had to go, and so my current tuning equipment is minimal, comprising a small electronic tuner similar to Ebay No. 311610091430 and a bellows foot pump which was previously used to inflate an air bed. It works and is good enough for the purpose it is intended for. This won’t be everyone’s cup of tea so I expect a wee bittie criticism here.

p.s. Ebay have the Korg tuner listed - Ebay No. 231714965546 at about one third of the above Amazon price

Ca canny
Garth

 

[the boxman]

hi

ok, i have a rough idea how to make a basic tuning table, ill fit a board to the bottom of the bellows, this can then be clamped to my table top, on the top ill fix a board which will be lightly longer than a full size accordion. I will make 3 holes in the middle of the top this will enable me to sit a reed block on top holding the block with one hand and lifting the board with the other. For single reeds i can put a plug in the other 2 holes and when testing 2 reeds together i can plug the single hole. Hope I've explained this ok.

When you see people doing tuning on the internet most have peterson stroba tuners which are quite expensive.

artelagro thanks for the link. let the fun begin

 

[bocsa]

Try YouTube 'tuning table' ....ignore the saws

 

[george garside]

I think there are some aacordion tuning apps available for mobile phones. I also understand the Dirks tuner for laptop etc is very good as it detects multiple reeds sounding together - or something like that.
george

 

[JerryPH]

I think that if I was going to do it, I would invest in the Dirk's software for accordion tuning, but then again, it would be to do as good a job as I could, not just to learn and practice with. If I just wanted to play, there are several instrument tuners that can double as basic accordion tuners, just google "music instrument tuners" for several options, many that are completely free.

 

[the boxman]

I did have a look at the Dirks software, but like all computer programmes I wasn't sue how complicated it would be to use. I prefer the idea of a simple stand alone tuner. I always endeavour to do as good job as I can in everything i do, but you need to learn the basics first then improve as your skills and experience develops. That is when i would look at investing a little more and upgrade my equipment.
I seen quite a few tuner on offer but for some reason i kept coming back to this one. N real reason other than I liked the look of it and it had a good write up.

thanks for all the replies.

 

[JerryPH]

Obviously one has to have a bit of a clue about the basics, like what the difference is between an accordion tuned at 440hz vs other frequencies, and then, if tuning a musette, what the difference in cents is off in between adjoining reeds to produce the desired results (that is where I am clueless about tuning intricacies).

As a basic tool, it gets no simpler than Dirk's tool... if the tuning is at 440hz, set the computer for that setting, place laptop near bellows table, blow a note, watch the needle on the screen display the note and how far it is off from the optimal setting. Adjust reed in proper location, test again. When within 1 cent (2-3 cents if not a critical application), and you move on to the next reed.

Also, once one gets into the more complex issues related to high-end tuning, Dirk's tool can handle that as well, and this is where his tool seems to shine over and above all the rest.

I've never done it, but reading up on things, I can at least understand the concepts and basics. You have to love the internet.

 

[the boxman]

The dirks programme sound quite simple to use, I'll have another look at it. Tuning musette is where the skills come in and its my aim to reach that level. (eventually )

 

[artelagro]

The program I used for tuning was Tune-it and it ran on an old PC using windows 95. My only reason for changing was to clear some space by removing the PC from my bench. I believe this software is still available for minimal cost for both Windows and Android. You will see enough of its specification to evaluate at http://www.tune-it.com.au/

On the tuning table design, I would recommend using foot control to leave two hands free.

Garth

 

[Soulsaver]

Do you still need the electronic tuners if you use Tune it?

Don't think I'm knocking the suggestion, I'm not, but what advantage does a Korg LCA 120 (£77 amazon/ £25 eBay) have over a Korg CA1 (£9 amazon) which I already own, but haven't used it for tuning 'cos I haven't done any...as I haven't got round to making a table...
Is there other good cheap/free options that do a good job, too?

 

[debra]

I can also recommend Dirk's accordion tuner. What is really nice about this is the ability to check two or three reeds simultaneously. So you can check how much tremolo there is in an MM or MMM register, or whether an LM or MH register is really completely dry. As reeds playing together may slightly influence each other this is very useful. Special tuners may look fancy with stroboscope but you can only check one reed at a time. And as you can install Dirk's tuner on a laptop you can easily use it when on the move.

 

[artelagro]

Hi Soulsaver
<HIGHLIGHT highlight="#bfffbf">[highlight=#bfffbf]Do you still need the electronic tuners if you use Tune it?[/highlight]</HIGHLIGHT> - No, The only extra needed was a microphone which is now built in to most devices. I think Tune-it's big plus point is the clarity of the display - you know what my eyesight is like. They claim to measure to a fraction of a cent but to me that feature is just a gimmick.
Hope this helps
Garth

 

[JIM D.]

I use and recommend the Dirk's tuner website. :tup:

 

[Soulsaver]

I use and recommend the Dirks tuner website. :tup:

Got to be good, then. Im guessing it isnt free?

 

[debra]

I use and recommend the Dirks tuner website. :tup:

Got to be good, then. Im guessing it isnt free?[/quote]
Its a professional tool used by professionals. No it isnt free. (Its 198 euro)

 

[boxplayer4000]

I've used tuners for years; latterly a Petersen one. However technology moves on and I'm experimenting with a phone based App called 'DaTuner Lite' and it is showing all signs of being up to the job. The sensitivity is adjustable and it gives a perfect A440 reading referenced both from a tuning fork and web based tones.

 

[JerryPH]

... And at $2.66 for the pro version, it looks to be very affordable for those looking to play around with tuning.

For someone that wants to get a bit deeper in this, I can see where the big advantage of the Dirk software in being able to register 3 separate tones (great for seeing what your wet tune is set to do both initially and after adjustments). It can also record your results and be used to print out before and after results of the tuning, creating a very useful report.

As of this morning, I have made the decision to slowly get into tuning and start this project with a search for some dead accordion from whom I may steal the bellows (lots of garage sales and flea markets to peruse this time of the year), and from there, make my own tuning table. When I start these little fun projects, I tend to want to do them the best that I can, so in my mind (at this point... lol), I see the bellows from a full size accordion being used with a larger foot operated custom tuner box that I make myself and, of course, Dirk's tuning software.

It will be a nice summer-long project that should fill a few of my cold winter nights with tuning fun and in the process, I get to learn all about the intricacies of tuning.

 

[boxplayer4000]

I can assure JerryPH that I'm not 'playing around with tuning'. It's worth remembering that the best tuners hardly use them and at best they can only take you into an area where the process should be finished by ear.