Which are The Great Acoustic Piano Accordions?

[Eddy Yates]

So, do I have this right? Swing tuning is tuning the 2 M reed banks a bit apart. Musette tuning is detuning the H bank?
I looked it up and that seems right, but just double checking so Im not talking out of my hat. Re-reading your post, it seems like musette tuning actually has nothing to do with whether its H or M?
I read this and it still seems pretty random:
http://www.mick-hursey.co.uk/accordions/musette-an-explanation/

 

[maugein96]

So, do I have this right? Swing tuning is tuning the 2 M reed banks a bit apart. Musette tuning is detuning the H bank?
I looked it up and that seems right, but just double checking so Im not talking out of my hat. Re-reading your post, it seems like musette tuning actually has nothing to do with whether its H or M?
I read this and it still seems pretty random:
http://www.mick-hursey.co.uk/accordions/musette-an-explanation/

Eddy,

Traditional musette tuning requires the accordion to have three M reeds, so that one bank is tuned flat, one straight, and one sharp. Most European accordions used in traditional type music do not have H reeds, with LMMM being the preferred combination.

In France most modern players have no use for MMM tuning, and the typical box is configured LMM. The most common tuning in France is known as americain (between swing and musette) which sits from about 6 to 8 cents, so that there is still a slight edge to the sound. Some players still stand by the old MMM musette pur tuning and play their entire repertoires on boxes which have only MMM reeds.

In Ireland swing tuning is the preferred option these days, and the players just make use of amplification to handle big outdoor events. Most of the accordion music these days is played on little two row melodeons. I dont know why they made the switch from big LMMM boxes to the bouebe (Irish 2 row diatonic box) and swing tuning, but I do know that a lot of audiences never appreciated being blasted out of their chairs by big LMMM boxes played through amplification. Some of the older style bands are still on the go, often featuring two full sized accordions, but their music is generally more appreciated by dancers. The most popular of those bands was/is probably The Gallowglass Ceili Band, which also features a saxophone in the line up.

Generally speaking, elsewhere in Europe the audiences and players are encouraged to follow tradition, and there is considerably less scope for variation in the accordion tunings. That said, some players may opt for a slightly different sound, and their audiences will let them know if what they are hearing is acceptable. The further east you go in Europe the less likelihood there is of the accordions used to play traditional type music being musette tuned.

The LMMH configuration is favoured by players who do not wish to be tied to any specific genre, and is also the preferred option for classical music. In those instruments one bank of M reeds is usually tuned just sharp enough to create a slight tremolo. If the player wants a musette type sound, theyll usually select MMH to get a slight edge. I have no experience of playing such instruments at all, as they tend to be pretty rare here in Scotland. When Scotland had a lot of accordion stores you could get any type of accordion you wanted, provided it was black or red with LMMM reeds.

Just to clarify, musette tuning does not feature H or piccolo reeds at all. Depending on where we are in the world, an accordion with piccolo reeds may be about as common as an igloo in the Kalahari Desert.

 

[Eddy Yates]

Thanks, Maugein. I wonder which tuning extra-terrestrials would prefer?
Good explanation, combining science with tradition. The biggest book in my library (remember those? Books and libraries) is simply called “Tuning”. I bought it after I stumbled into a piano store run by “just intonation” freaks.
So, why is the term “swing” tuning used?
But I digress. Back to the Great Accordions” topic, and the Liberty Bellows Pancordion I linked. I just don’t like the way that thing is tuned, so it’s almost impossible for me to imagine playing it. I have so much experience with pianos that I know what can be done to make a rough instrument playable. It would seem that the Pancordion has such a great reputation that, if its really in good shape, it could be tuned to something I like. Right?

 

[maugein96]

It would seem that the Pancordion has such a great reputation that, if its really in good shape, it could be tuned to something I like. Right?

Eddy,

In a word, yes. Tuners tell us that it is easier to tune down and youre only talking about one bank of M reeds. The $64,000 question is always What would you like? All you can effectively do is tell the tuner how many cents you want the end product, but you wont know what it sounds like until hes finished. Some instruments sound better than others with precisely the same tuning.

To illustrate the point, when the accordion was in its heyday in France, tuners would be bombarded with requests to have their accordions tuned like one top player or another. The honest ones among them would explain to the client that the best they could do was get as near to the tuning they wanted, but could offer no guarantee of an exact match.

I once walked into a Scottish accordion store (when we still had them), and there were three French made brand new Cavagnolo Bal Musette model MMM accordions on the shelf. They were all identical apart from the colour, and the variation in tuning/tone was remarkable. I ended up buying the one that the store staff reckoned had the best musette sound, but ultimately discovered their ears were accustomed to Scottish tuning, and I went off it rather quickly. By the time I realised Id made the wrong choice the other two had been sold. I had wanted the one with most French sound, but my lack of experience as a newbie cost me dearly on that occasion. Chances were that each instrument had been assembled by different accordion techs, and they had all done their own take on the tuning they thought was best.

The experience taught me that choosing the right model was only part of the exercise.

Im sure youll make the right choice in the end.

 

[Eddy Yates]

Thanks for all the information, Maugein. It’ll be most helpful in choosing an instrument.
So, why is the word “Swing” used in tuning? Clearly not about rhythm. Or is it? I can’t find an origin of the usage online.
Heading for Portland, Oregon this weekend and there’s an accordion store there. Another one that won’t publish what they have and even worse, you have to make an appointment. I may go anyway. I’ll sit and play all their damn accordions....

 

[maugein96]

Thanks for all the information, Maugein. It’ll be most helpful in choosing an instrument.
So, why is the word “Swing” used in tuning? Clearly not about rhythm. Or is it? I can’t find an origin of the usage online.
Heading for Portland, Oregon this weekend and there’s an accordion store there. Another one that won’t publish what they have and even worse, you have to make an appointment. I may go anyway. I’ll sit and play all their damn accordions....

Eddy,

Not entirely sure how swing accordion tuning came about. If I were to hazard a guess it would be back about the 40s in France, when the accordion started to replace the violin in Hot Club type line ups. The violin was deemed to be old fashioned about then, and the youthful accordion was commandeered to replace it. The French accordion tunings at that time were mainly musette pur, and that wouldnt do at all for playing to mainly seated audiences.

A whole wave of French players began to opt for a drier tuning, and Gus Viseur, a Belgian, was one of the pioneers of the new style, which gradually gained in popularity, but never really ousted the musette pur style. Players looking to make big money had to play musette or suffer for choosing a less popular repertoire. There was a bit of a crossover between the styles and Jo Privat successfully managed to blend them together. The type of French accordion which evolved was LMM, with the two MM reeds tuned anywhere between unisson (French spelling) up to about 20 cents sharp. Swing tuning is anywhere between 2 cents (demi swing) and 6 cents sharp. That term has been used in France since the 40s, and possibly before. There are some other tunings which tend to only be used in France, and it all gets a bit complicated. Not many players with a varied repertoire would want such tunings in any case.

Dont know anything about accordions on your side, but I would imagine that early jazz players also used a type of swing tuning (in the swing music era). It may well have been invented in North America, but I wouldnt really know. The only country whose accordions I know anything about is France, and even then as Ive never lived there my knowledge is pretty basic. Players and tunes yes, but I leave whats going on inside the accordions to people who know all the big fancy technical terms. I think I must have read over 100 articles in my life about accordion tuning, and am still really none the wiser. Was a time when I had a list of must haves, but considering Ive very rarely played for an audience its all rather immaterial these days.

Im one of those types that needs to learn young with musical instruments. I can play almost anything, but cannot discipline myself to learn them properly. The accordion has proved to be just a bit too much for me to handle, but I still get a lot of pleasure out of pretending I can play. Your experience as a pro player will probably give you that X factor that guys like me will just never acquire.

We have those appointment only type stores here in Scotland. Fortunately my nearest one is far enough away for me not to want to go there, or rather not want to try and make an appointment to return there with a problem.

Playing everything theyve got sounds like a good way to find out what you like and what you dont. Good luck.

Cheers,

John Walker (I chose the user name Maugein 96 after one of my French accordions with 96 bass. It was a sensible thing to do, as I now realise it will take me 96 years to be able to play it to a decent standard!)

 

[OuijaBoard]

Just to keep things interesting: The tuning term "Swing" has meant different things in different eras, and accordion styles.

It used to mean, about 12 cents. Say, 10-12 cents. A little wetter than a light 9/10-cent "violin" sound, but not as wet as the 15-20 cent wetness. This was the denotation of "Swing" for tuning around midcentury, at least in accordion tuning for Irish music. But currently it is as Maugein96 says--2-6 cents. I personally love a "wet swing" or "light violin" MM or about 8 cents.

 

[Eddy Yates]

Hey John W.
Thanks for the history. Someone once at a club told me to “shut up and play”, and some are probably thinking that here. But all this background history is very interesting, and I’m probably wrong, but I imagine it helps with the playing, or at least with what goes on in my mind while playing. I know for sure it’ll help with choosing another instrument and keeping it going.
As for “x-factor “, it’s 99% perspiration and 1% inspiration...and then 7% who you know! :hb And that just applies to my piano playing.
I’m sure that 97.3% of the people on this forum are better accordion players than me, but I’m practicing! And learning a lot from all of you.

 

[Eddy Yates]

Ouija, do you know if the word “swing” came from swing music, or rather from the tuning that accordion players used when they played swing Music?

 

[Tiposx]

Re the thread title - I had always thought that piano accordions sound pretty much the same. Now I know a little more about it I think that to the listener:
-they are either in tune or not,
-there are differences due to the amount of tremolo,
-some are louder than others

Having said that, after reading this thread I listened to a Gola on YouTube. Now that does sound great!

 

[Eddy Yates]

The Sonola SS20 is listed as one of the great accordions. What is the difference between a Sonola SS6, an SS10, an SS15, and an SS20? I can’t find the answer anywhere, but maybe one of you wizards knows.

 

[JerryPH]

Hohner Morino VII (Adam-T)

Why the Morino VII which is a 4/5 reed, 120bass setup as opposed to the Morino VI S, which is not only a 5/5 reed but 185 bass MIII Free Bass setup? The sound is richer and musical capabilities expanded, no? Theyre also both from the same era (mid-late 70s).

 

[Eddy Yates]

Thanks for the info Adam.  Button boxes are rare here as 90% of the accordions in the US are PA's. The 10% of button boxes are a mix of Hohner,Weltmeister,and Paolo Soprani in the east and Gabbinelli's in the west in Tex/Mex and Cajun music groups. There are many used "Star" ( Chemnitz style) concertinas used in the popular Polish/American bands and the Roland button models have become very popular. JIM D.

I know it's a LOT of work, but I think the accordion world could use a book from you. Your knowledge should be more widely disseminated (spread, sown, scattered).

 

[Eddy Yates]

Good Pick!!   The AM1100  Would be on my list of say the " TOP 10 " of currently made Pro Accordions.      JIM D.

Hey Jim D.  I can't believe nobody followed up this answer with "Okay! What are the other nine?"
thanks

 

[stefan_1992]

Hello
I am looking for Palmer Hughes accordion books. Anyone to send me?
Thank you

 

[JerryPH]

Hello
I am looking for Palmer Hughes accordion books. Anyone to send me?
Thank you

Here you go:
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=palmer+h...ix=palmer+hughes+acc,aps,149&ref=nb_sb_noss_2

 

[Valde002]

Just ordered a Borsini model and it is to arrive today! The company is no longer, unfortunately. How are these models? How do they compare to the Titano brand? This one has binci reeds and I am so excited to see how it plays.

Anyone know?

 

[debra]

Just ordered a Borsini model and it is to arrive today! The company is no longer, unfortunately. How are these models? How do they compare to the Titano brand? This one has binci reeds and I am so excited to see how it plays.

Anyone know?

Borsini had everything from single reed beginner accordions to full size convertor concert models. So just because an accordion is Borsini doesn't say much about it. It could be great or it could be run of the mill... Binci makes all types (qualities) of reeds, so even knowing the reeds are Binci doesn't say much...

There are a few characteristics that "define" differences between concert instruments (hand-made reeds, cassotto, perhaps convertor) of some major brands (even though Borsini is no more). A Bugari is robust, has nice pleasing sound, a bit mellow. A Pigini sounds a bit sharper, balance also a bit more towards the treble side than with Bugari. A Borsini tends to be a bit lighter and fragile. Pleasing sound though. A Victoria has a particular sound very suited to jazz (and Victoria is very popular in the jazz scene). Titano isn't the name of an accordion factory but had their accordions made by others. For several decades they were made by Victoria. The Hohner Morino and Gola (until around 2000) have a unique characteristic that the M reed in cassotto has a nicer sound than the L reed, whereas all Italian accordions I know have nicer L than M sound. (And yes I know that the Morino N and S series were made in Italy by Excelsior, with maybe some final bits still done by Hohner in Germany but I don't know what).
Other than these observations I find it hard to "compare" accordions just based on brand.

Fortunately for you all Italian accordions are made for over 90% from "standard" parts, so even though Borsini no longer exists almost everything in the accordion that can break can still be ordered (or adapted from existing standard parts). So enjoy your new accordion! And never mind how it compares to others. Be happy with what it is.

 

[Eddy Yates]

Paul, very very useful information as always. And thanks for this mantra: “...enjoy your new accordion. And never mind how it compares to others. Be happy with what it is.”
Eddy

 

[JerryPH]

Just ordered a Borsini model and it is to arrive today! The company is no longer, unfortunately. How are these models? How do they compare to the Titano brand? This one has binci reeds and I am so excited to see how it plays.

Anyone know?

I dont know about all Borsini models, but I do have a good friend (Ed Manfredi), that plays one, and one that I heard and recorded in real life... Id place its quality as being right up there, based on a personal evaluation of this one accordion.  They sound excellent 

Grab a set of headphones and make your own impressions as far as the recordings go:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIl8YVPPl6W6bqC8zJ0cEGA