Affordable arranger/ sound modules

[jdam01]

Hi

I currently have an accordion with musictech qselect midi. I am looking for an affordable sound module or arranger to use. I have an ms40 however the sounds are not really good at all. I would like something with nicer sounds however I don't know any. Any recommendations?

 

[Ventura]

ahh.. unfortunately for you the MS-40 actually has very
good, professional sound indeed, and has been proven
on countless gigs oner decades

sonically good to it's core.. decent polyphony, many pattern choices,
solid professional programming, programmable..

so truthfully, you feeling "the sounds are not really good at all"
may be you just need to take more time, get better at interfacing
with it (or with any arranger) use a better pa system, etc.

otherwise you might find the next $1000 you spend on an arranger
gives the same results you are getting now

i suggest you grab a few good MIDI tracks of songs you know
and can easily play along with, run the sequences, and get a better
feel for how the unit "sounds"

 

[jdam01]

ahh.. unfortunately for you the MS-40 actually has very
good, professional sound indeed, and has been proven
on countless gigs oner decades

sonically good to it's core.. decent polyphony, many pattern choices,
solid professional programming, programmable..

so truthfully, you feeling "the sounds are not really good at all"
may be you just need to take more time, get better at interfacing
with it (or with any arranger) use a better pa system, etc.

otherwise you might find the next $1000 you spend on an arranger
gives the same results you are getting now

i suggest you grab a few good MIDI tracks of songs you know
and can easily play along with, run the sequences, and get a better
feel for how the unit "sounds"

I find the musette doesn't sound the greatest and the accordion sounds very much like an organ in the lower octave. Unless someone has programmed it to be that way. I will try to find a manual and see

 

[Ventura]

back then the arrangers and sound modules were not particularly
tweaked toward accordion sounds, as digital bellows dynamics was
in it's infancy and velocity sensitive MIDI accordion keyboards few and
far between and expensive and somewhat problematic

i guess at the time the accordion "sound" for the mix/end result was
assumed to be the reeds, not the module, so you could be quite
right about the musette and such

have you used the Sax patch ? He captured perhaps one of the best
samples and incorporated it to perfection in their sound bank,, was way
ahead of it's time

 

[jdam01]

back then the arrangers and sound modules were not particularly
tweaked toward accordion sounds, as digital bellows dynamics was
in it's infancy and velocity sensitive MIDI accordion keyboards few and
far between and expensive and somewhat problematic

i guess at the time the accordion "sound" for the mix/end result was
assumed to be the reeds, not the module, so you could be quite
right about the musette and such

have you used the Sax patch ? He captured perhaps one of the best
samples and incorporated it to perfection in their sound bank,, was way
ahead of it's time

Never heard of the sax patch. Im fairly young so I'm not too familiar of some things

 

[Ventura]

well, you may like to try what many of us do when we first
get a "new" sound source.. go into a simple mode and just
audition every sound in the tone selection area with your treble keys..

as you step through the different orchestral/instrument "patches"
try and think of a melody or song which USES that sound and try to
play a riff or a few bars of that song in a manner that is similar to how
the instrumentalist would play that kind of instrument

in other words, play authentically for the type of sound, as well
as you can, and then your memory has a comparison it can
work with

so you have the GM (general MIDI) sound bank in pretty much everything,
then many devices also have specialty or pre-programmed layered or
specialized sounds you can also step through and/or "assign" to your
channel 1 MIDI messages (which is your treble side)

have fun !

 

[SteveBox]

I am not familiar with the MS-40, but it is from the 1990s, so I would not expect the sounds to be all that great.

If you want an external sound module with great accordion sounds that is affordable (less than $500), look into the Accordion Master XXL from V3 Sound. The sounds come from digital samples of many famous accordions. This is a sound module only, not an arranger.

V3 SOUND

V3 SOUND - Soundexpander

www.v3sound.com

If your MusicTech can be programmed to play multiple sounds on different MIDI channels, then you probably don't need the "V3 Sound Control App" that is optional for the V3 modules. However, I don't want to make any false claims, as I have no experience with MusicTech, and so I don't know how well a module like this would work with your accordion.

Here is a video demo of this sound module being played by a MusicTech DIGIBEAT accordion, which may have different capabilities than your instrument.

 

[dak]

Hi

I currently have an accordion with musictech qselect midi. I am looking for an affordable sound module or arranger to use. I have an ms40 however the sounds are not really good at all. I would like something with nicer sounds however I don't know any. Any recommendations?

The MS40 is actually pretty good but you need to forget about its accordion sounds. They are intended to add some ambience to songs, not for carrying the day. You use your acoustic instrument for that. If you don't, you select other instruments than accordion as a rule. The brass patches are rather good for leads, as are the saxophones. Guitars are pretty solid as well, the strings are where the age of this thing shows.

One of the organ patches is excessively noisy (reed organ?) but most are usable as well. The problem is that you'll be disappointed with most arrangers regarding the accordion sounds: that's not their principal focus. So I'd really suggest trying to knock out what you can from the MS40 and consider moving on only once the issues you hope to be addressed by the upgrade are not mostly accordion sound issues.

 

[jdam01]

The MS40 is actually pretty good but you need to forget about its accordion sounds. They are intended to add some ambience to songs, not for carrying the day. You use your acoustic instrument for that. If you don't, you select other instruments than accordion as a rule. The brass patches are rather good for leads, as are the saxophones. Guitars are pretty solid as well, the strings are where the age of this thing shows.

One of the organ patches is excessively noisy (reed organ?) but most are usable as well. The problem is that you'll be disappointed with most arrangers regarding the accordion sounds: that's not their principal focus. So I'd really suggest trying to knock out what you can from the MS40 and consider moving on only once the issues you hope to be addressed by the upgrade are not mostly accordion sound issues.

Fair enough, makes sense to use it with the acoustic. Thanks again

 

[JerryPH]

Question... HOW are you using it? Are you using all the drums, "arranger" functions of having background sounds/instruments follow your chord changes as well as using it's integrated sounds as main instrument?

I ask because I use an arranger with all it's features except it's voices as main instruments. That is where I use what is in the accordion that I am using (ie: Elkavox would use the acoustic accordion it has and whatever electronic sounds as main voices and if a Roland, it uses whatever integrated sounds it has as main instrument, the Beltuna I would not even want to use it's sampled sounds and just use the acoustic accordion)... I never bothered to use the samples on any arranger as a main voices. That goes for the Solton Programmer 24, Ketron X4 or BK-7m.

I did this because I was always happiest with the results when used in that manner. I never used any accordion sampled sounds from any arranger because the real thing was always better for my ears (FR-8X aside).

 

[dak]

I did this because I was always happiest with the results when used in that manner. I never used any accordion sampled sounds from any arranger because the real thing was always better for my ears (FR-8X aside).

The FR-8X should also have better accordion sounds than any of the arrangers. The way bellows dynamics work on the Roland, it may be harder to get a consistent mix since in my opinion an acoustic accordion translates pressure changes a lot more into sound quality rather than just the volume and thus can capture the listener's attention better while not either drowning out the accompaniment or getting drowned out by it.

Personal impression based on minuscule amounts of experience, so don't view it as more than a conversation starter.

 

[jdam01]

Question... HOW are you using it? Are you using all the drums, "arranger" functions of having background sounds/instruments follow your chord changes as well as using it's integrated sounds as main instrument?

I ask because I use an arranger with all it's features except it's voices as main instruments. That is where I use what is in the accordion that I am using (ie: Elkavox would use the acoustic accordion it has and whatever electronic sounds as main voices and if a Roland, it uses whatever integrated sounds it has as main instrument, the Beltuna I would not even want to use it's sampled sounds and just use the acoustic accordion)... I never bothered to use the samples on any arranger as a main voices. That goes for the Solton Programmer 24, Ketron X4 or BK-7m.

I did this because I was always happiest with the results when used in that manner. I never used any accordion sampled sounds from any arranger because the real thing was always better for my ears (FR-8X aside).

I wanted to use it instead of using the mics for the right hand since I feel acoustic and digital sounds don't sound the greatest together (my opinion) however my accordion isn't very loud acoustically. I've only heard how things sound from the players perspective and not the audience's so that is something I have to do.

Here is an example


Perhaps I am being very picky. I definitely need to mess with mixing.

 

[jdam01]

I will say my Elkavox does sound a lot better. Do you use your arranger with the live sounds for a wider sound?

 

[JerryPH]

I wanted to use it instead of using the mics for the right hand since I feel acoustic and digital sounds don't sound the greatest together (my opinion) however my accordion isn't very loud acoustically. I've only heard how things sound from the players perspective and not the audience's so that is something I have to do.

Perhaps I am being very picky. I definitely need to mess with mixing.

Accordion recording for sound/video recording is definitely something that requires more tweaking than if you are listening to it live (from the accordion side or the audience side) and a ton of practice. Accordion recording is definitely a bit of an art, I'm happy with my "sound" for the most part, but I've spent hundreds of hours behind the screen messing around.

Live sound all you basically want is fair sound quality, maximum volume with good balanced sounds with no feedback, close to what you recorded. In studio recording, you really want control, so that means separate tracks for EVERYTHING if possible. Even on my last little video with the Petosa, I had 3 tracks... voice, accordion left and accordion right, so even with a bare accordion, I want separate tracks per hand so that I can create my own stereo image.

Quick hint. When using the arranger bass, do not press the bass/chord button more than once for every chord change, and if your arrange is setup to listen to your chord changes from your chord buttons, avoid the bass/counter-bass rows entirely, that way you don't introduce additional bass hits that sound as if they are off beat.

I will say my Elkavox does sound a lot better. Do you use your arranger with the live sounds for a wider sound?

Me? Wrong or right... never, that was just how I rolled back then.

I used the sounds that the accordion offers. When I was playing on the Elkavox and the Ketron X3, the X3 took care of the accompaniment and the Elka's acoustic and electronics took care of the melody... of course I also varied a lot, some songs had no arranger, some had, some were 100% acoustic, some were 100% electric only but most were with arranger and 1 acoustic accordion and 1-2 electronic instruments and often were individually soloed in a piece. I had a different combination for almost every song. With that thing, there were no presets, I was able to hit the 2-3 buttons to get live the instruments that I wanted or the register to mute the accordion when needed. Just practice.

 

[Ventura]

Quick hint. When using the arranger bass, do not press the bass/chord button more than once for every chord change, and if your arrange is setup to listen to your chord changes from your chord buttons, avoid the bass/counter-bass rows entirely, that way you don't introduce additional bass hits that sound as if they are off beat.

yes, that is it exactly.. why i do not use an aranger liike most of you

it is unnatural for me to interruptus my normal left hand attack,
which for the most part is more like a Bass player anyhow..

while i have had the KORG's since the i series began, only used them live
as drum machines at first, the way i had been using electronic sidemen
since my first ACE, and then to run MIDI files live as i developed that
repertoir over decades

it was not until TECHNICS came out with their PR series Piano/ensembles that
i could actually do live backing patterns complete with chorded triggered
accompaniment, as it was the first device that could SCAN THE ENTIRE KEYBOARD
and therefore allow me to trigger the changes with my right hand

it being quite natural and seamless for me to comp a full chord on any
downbeat then keep on a rolling with the right hand melody or counterpoint..

this happened when i had a side job in a Mall Music/Piano/Organ store,
and i could "front pump" a Technics unit one handed for hours effortlessly.. needless
to say they sold like hotcakes too, though it drove the company crazy as they were
still focused on Organs, not accepting that market had basically died anyway.

the Technics people were delighted.. they still had Joey doing their Organ
clinics when they showed the line off to Dealers at NAMM and such,
but then they grabbed me to show how the Piano looking devices,
with a little shift in thinking and a monster right hand, could blow away
the competition. One of the best Jazz Box men i ever knew, Gene Bond,
put a Technics ensemble at Mino's bistro and walked in. flipped the on switch,
and gigged there 5 nights a week for years with amazing results..

some of the later Korg keyboards also added full keyboard scanning,
and i may end up going back to such for some gigs in future as i
become less able to handle weight, complexity of equipment, etc.
so this new KORG i bought might end up having more duties than
converting MIDI files to Audio tracks or as the studio handy input device

99% of what i play has the same format every time.. there are yo many chorus
then turns every so many measures.. playing a pattern with left hand
live triggers = zero difference to running the track from a MIDI file
EXCEPT YOU CAN CONCENTRATE on the cool stuff and let your "sidemen"
do their jobs flawlessly every time without breaking a sweat

even adding tricks or timing changes is no big deal if you are the type
who automatically remembers where stuff is in your arrangements
once you lock the songs basic "map" in..

i recommend some of you render a few of your oft-played songs into
MP3 backgrounds using your arranger, and prepare to be suprized how that
alows you to expand a performance of those numbers in a fresh and
actually unfettered way..

 

[JerryPH]

That is one way for sure, except that the MP3 doesn’t let me modify the song. For examp,e if I play a song, I can replay the trio 3 times in a row, change the order of the sections and change the timing and kinds of “drum solos” I want, this cannot happen if you are locked to an MP3. Nothing wrong with it, just a little more limiting.

Funny thing, I only now play with the arranger using the Roland 8X, I either will make a backing track or use nothing at all if I use one of my acoustic accordions.

 

[Mockie]

That is one way for sure, except that the MP3 doesn’t let me modify the song. For examp,e if I play a song, I can replay the trio 3 times in a row, change the order of the sections and change the timing and kinds of “drum solos” I want, this cannot happen if you are locked to an MP3. Nothing wrong with it, just a little more limiting.

Funny thing, I only now play with the arranger using the Roland 8X, I either will make a backing track or use nothing at all if I use one of my acoustic accordions.

I have a Roland BK7 module in 2011 and I love it to bits.
Great instrument sounds including drum kits.
Maybe pick one up for less than $600

 

[JerryPH]

I picked mine up used in November 2016, quite by accident and surprise. I paid the equivalent of a few pennies over $500US.

I took my sister to a pawn shop as she heard that he had some old vinyl records that her friend may be interested in. While she was looking over the records, I was browsing, stuck my hand in a box and pulled out a BK-7m quite by accident. I then set my sister on the store owner and she haggled him down an additional $300 off the price that they wanted. She walked out with some records for her friend, I walked out with a BK-7m in "like new" condition.

This is one of those stories in life that you would normally never believe. It was a mere 6 days earlier that I had found and picked up my FR-8X and that story is also nigh unbelievable as well !