What is the best keyboard arranger……
- Thread starter Tom
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My 2 cents... I am *sure* we've seen someone use a keyboard arranger, right? If not look at the video that I posted above. A keyboard player uses 2 hands on the keyboard to play AND has 2 hands to control the unit's controls just a few inches above.
An accordionist has the left hand tied down under the bass strap in a vertical position and the right hand trying to make music on a vertical keyboard, neither of which can be made to be anywhere close to being "comfortably close" to the controls of the arranger unless it is in between songs when they are not playing, which is why the best arrangers for accordionists are ones that have no keyboard, are small and are relatively easy to use. Arrangers like the Ketron X4, Audiya, BK7m, etc... all share those traits and those are the ones that you will see used by accordionists.
If you just happen to see a keyboard arranger used by an accordionist (Hi Larry!
), you are going to see someone that plays the keyboard as well. Is this a skill that many accordionists have? Not me, and I have no desire to learn to play piano, I am challenged enough trying to play my squeezebox... lol. But if you *want* to go that way, then why play the accordion? At that point, I think it's best to invest time and money in to a keyboard and put the accordion away... because pretty much all the sounds you make on your digital accordion can be made on that keyboard.EDIT: Had to add: "How to play MIDI accordion.... STEP 1, use an ACOUSTIC accordion with NO MIDI CAPABILITIES"
Anyone else see the humor/irony of that statement??
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Thanks Jerry! Yeah, but what I’m looking for is an actual demo of the system (although I agree he seems to be doing it). Look, we are frickin’ spoiled when it comes to demo videos in Roland accordion world (some PH guy has set the bar quite high). That’s what I’m looking for.My 2 cents... I am *sure* we've seen someone use a keyboard arranger, right? If not look at the video that I posted above. A keyboard player uses 2 hands on the keyboard to play AND has 2 hands to control the unit's controls just a few inches above.
An accordionist has the left hand tied down under the bass strap in a vertical position and the right hand trying to make music on a vertical keyboard, neither of which can be made to be anywhere close to being "comfortably close" to the controls of the arranger unless it is in between songs when they are not playing, which is why the best arrangers for accordionists are ones that have no keyboard, are small and are relatively easy to use. Arrangers like the Ketron X4, Audiya, BK7m, etc... all share those traits and those are the ones that you will see used by accordionists.
If you just happen to see a keyboard arranger used by an accordionist (Hi Larry!
EDIT: Had to add: "How to play MIDI accordion.... STEP 1, use an ACOUSTIC accordion with NO MIDI CAPABILITIES"
Anyone else see the humor/irony of that statement??
I see no conflict with playing both keyboard and accordion. Like some days I want to play guitar with my friends, not guitar sounds on my accordion.
Again, my original goal was to kill two birds with one stone. Rather than spend $500 on an arranger, another $200 on a nice keyboard. I gave my keyboard to a friend’s son after the tornado blew her house off the foundation and I miss it (the keyboard, not the house).
Give me a little better idea, what is it that you are looking for... an accordionist using an arranger?
Ventura
Been here for ages!
trick question :
why does Rick Wakeman take more than one keyboard on a Gig ?
why not
in a way this hands stuck in the strap and facing the other way argument
made me smile as i reached over in real time to grab a handfull of By God
Drawbars and ramp up my sound for "Rush" using the FR4 as a contoller
why not
hey Tom, part of the arranger keyboards and such is they follow a long term
philisophy, so some of us will naturally gravitate to a Korg product,
some the Yamaha, etc. It might help if you can mess with some
(time permitting) unless you find something so cheap you can always get rid of it.
anyhow, you were gonna drift by someday and pick up that parts Panordion,
i can also loan you long term a 61 key Korg arranger (floppy disk era) to mess
with.. it is modern enough to support full keyboard chord autosensing and
has the million drum tracks and accompaniments from the i5 series inside
and lots of front panel controls and awesome Piano's.. no speakers though, it is
a pro series unit
the i3 replaced it basically.. i was still using it in the studio last year
why does Rick Wakeman take more than one keyboard on a Gig ?
why not
in a way this hands stuck in the strap and facing the other way argument
made me smile as i reached over in real time to grab a handfull of By God
Drawbars and ramp up my sound for "Rush" using the FR4 as a contoller
why not
hey Tom, part of the arranger keyboards and such is they follow a long term
philisophy, so some of us will naturally gravitate to a Korg product,
some the Yamaha, etc. It might help if you can mess with some
(time permitting) unless you find something so cheap you can always get rid of it.
anyhow, you were gonna drift by someday and pick up that parts Panordion,
i can also loan you long term a 61 key Korg arranger (floppy disk era) to mess
with.. it is modern enough to support full keyboard chord autosensing and
has the million drum tracks and accompaniments from the i5 series inside
and lots of front panel controls and awesome Piano's.. no speakers though, it is
a pro series unit
the i3 replaced it basically.. i was still using it in the studio last year
Someone explaining the connection setup, ie.
“This is the xxxxx keyboard arranger for xxxx dollars. It has xxxx styles which you can/cannot edit and download additional ones. Here are some of the styles. It uses a midi to midi/usb in the arranger. You use this button/command to identify the midi chord channel / it has a wizard that works like this. Watch how I plug it in and start the style. Etc.”
Thanks Ventura! Unfortunately I haven’t made it out to the east coast since covid in order to come visit your studio.
. Some day, thanks so much for the offer.Well, I can produce something like that for the old Solton arrangers. But for those you can plain forget about "You use this button/command to identify the midi chord channel / it has a wizard that works like this". They don't identify a thing. It's trial and error if you are missing the docs for your MIDI instrument.
Here you go. If this doesn't simplify things enough for you, we have to talk... lol
I did not do the other parts such as "This is the xxxxx keyboard arranger for xxxx dollars. It has xxxx styles which you can/cannot edit and download additional ones. Here are some of the styles" because this is specific and different for EVERY arranger and the video would need to be 500 hours long to cover 10% of the choices out there... lol (this one already took me 3 hours to assemble for you). I have to leave you do SOME of the research, right?
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Here you go. If this doesn't simplify things enough for you, we have to talk... lol
I did not do the other parts such as "This is the xxxxx keyboard arranger for xxxx dollars. It has xxxx styles which you can/cannot edit and download additional ones. Here are some of the styles" because this is specific and different for EVERY arranger and the video would need to be 500 hours long to cover 10% of the choices out there... lol (this one already took me 3 hours to assemble for you). I have to leave you do SOME of the research, right?
Wow, thanks so much Jerry!!! Great explanation of how to set up these arrangers and why the “regular” arranger is a better choice than the keyboard arranger due to size. You’re the best!
Answering my own question a couple of week later. It seems that the "Ableton Live" software package does what I want - "Ableton Live listens to and adjusts its tempo based on incoming audio in real time, making it a dynamic part of the band instead of the tempo source that everyone has to follow." though whether I want to be the sort of musician who has a laptop on stage is another matter, at least I know it is possible.
KeysFla
Well-known member
This depends on your needs. I use a keyboard arranger, not module. This way I have the option to play just the keyboard if my Roland accordion failed. One time my keyboard arranger failed and I just played the Roland. That evening I got the record $$$ tips. What does that tell us? Are we playing with to much of a complex setup? I had a review one time, that I sound Karaoke. Are customers looking for more authenticity?
I think in your case the mishap showed that you have the musical chops to get the job done when your standard equipment fails. And it's recompensation for adversity.
I remember taking some college course in my engineering studies and skipping all the lectures (inconvenient time for me), then about a month before the verbal finals I tried to get the lecture notes/script from the professor's office: it was customary to have a lecture script/handout and that was sufficient material for my preparation. Except that this course did not have one. And I knew nobody else who had taken the course. And there was no recommended course book/material.
I prepared for a month based on the title of the course. Could have spelled doom with a lot of lecturers here. Particularly when I said stuff like "I don't know the terms in the question: if you can just give me the definition, I'll work out the answer". Fortunately this was a young professor who was delighted not to have to scrape through the layers of coursework replays before being able to check for knowledge. Turned out to be one of the highest graded exams I had.
Being able to dance on the wrong foot sometimes is appreciated because it shows that you have actual skills. With an arranger keyboard, that is not always easy to tell.
KeysFla
Well-known member
Played keyboard arranger longer then accordion. As demand requires I will play either or both on a gig. I practice at home with my arranger. Since the key bed is more like a piano, I find playing the same chops on the accordion very easy.My 2 cents... I am *sure* we've seen someone use a keyboard arranger, right? If not look at the video that I posted above. A keyboard player uses 2 hands on the keyboard to play AND has 2 hands to control the unit's controls just a few inches above.
An accordionist has the left hand tied down under the bass strap in a vertical position and the right hand trying to make music on a vertical keyboard, neither of which can be made to be anywhere close to being "comfortably close" to the controls of the arranger unless it is in between songs when they are not playing, which is why the best arrangers for accordionists are ones that have no keyboard, are small and are relatively easy to use. Arrangers like the Ketron X4, Audiya, BK7m, etc... all share those traits and those are the ones that you will see used by accordionists.
If you just happen to see a keyboard arranger used by an accordionist (Hi Larry!
EDIT: Had to add: "How to play MIDI accordion.... STEP 1, use an ACOUSTIC accordion with NO MIDI CAPABILITIES"
Anyone else see the humor/irony of that statement??
Thomas N
Well-known member
I used the Roland BK-7M for years before either it broke, or my FR-8X Midi broke. What I've discovered in the past year of playing the FR-8X solo is how much my left hand ability had degraded. I was so used to just hitting the chord buttons that I had morphed into essentially a right-hand only player. Much to my astonishment, I now far enjoy playing solo, using only the string bass and organ chord on the left hand. Occasionally I'll use the FR-8X percussion but I've never liked it.
And if I really want to have backing tracks I'll download a song from Karaoke Version, transpose it to the key I want, and save it to a USB as an mp3. Costs a couple dollars per song and you can customize it to remove any parts you want: vocals, lead, sax, drums, etc. I have a few songs on the USB that I can play along with in this manner and they sound quite good.
I reinvent myself every couple years with the accordion anyway, so soon I'll probably be spouting off about how "digital" the Roland sounds and how much I love my acoustic Excelsiors.
And if I really want to have backing tracks I'll download a song from Karaoke Version, transpose it to the key I want, and save it to a USB as an mp3. Costs a couple dollars per song and you can customize it to remove any parts you want: vocals, lead, sax, drums, etc. I have a few songs on the USB that I can play along with in this manner and they sound quite good.
I reinvent myself every couple years with the accordion anyway, so soon I'll probably be spouting off about how "digital" the Roland sounds and how much I love my acoustic Excelsiors.
Unfortunately, acoustic Excelsiors grow old on people who grow old. That's one brand not particularly known for lightweight instruments.
Thomas N
Well-known member
KeysFla
Well-known member
I think the smaller option in a keyboard arranger is the Korg pa1000. It is light and very high quality. I like the built in speakers which are great for monitoring your sound. The Korg Musikant version is a great add-on too and gives the variety I need ( Musikant are Popular songs we like playing - but with a clean fresh beat).
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