What is the best keyboard arranger……

[KeysFla]

I do think the need for an arranger module will become obsolete. To have an accordion with arranger built-in may be the answer to some. Especially, those that play ballroom dance music. I have seen them around. Petosa has one I have seen demonstrated.

 

[KeysFla]

One question... do arrangers play out to their own tempo and you play along (not so useful for me) or can they follow input from a human and play along (super useful, would need to buy one!) ?

Most higher end arrangers have a “tap tempo” button. This will set the tempo based on how you hit this button, much like counting off in a band.

 

[dak]

Most higher end arrangers have a “tap tempo” button. This will set the tempo based on how you hit this button, much like counting off in a band.

That would still require setting the speed in advance, with the arranger then keeping hard time. Which is actually comparatively appropriate if people want to be dancing: you do want to keep with the beat. Even without "tap tempo" arrangers will allow you to set/adjust the speed you want in bpm, and you can explicitly tell it to speed up/down while playing. I have no idea to what degree modern arrangers can be told to adjust: my old one is not interested in the speed of what one plays but follows its settings. Different styles all have their presets but they are easy to turn up/down on the fly if you haven't prepared a specific bunch of settings for a particular song.

 

[KeysFla]

That would still require setting the speed in advance, with the arranger then keeping hard time. Which is actually comparatively appropriate if people want to be dancing: you do want to keep with the beat. Even without "tap tempo" arrangers will allow you to set/adjust the speed you want in bpm, and you can explicitly tell it to speed up/down while playing. I have no idea to what degree modern arrangers can be told to adjust: my old one is not interested in the speed of what one plays but follows its settings. Different styles all have their presets but they are easy to turn up/down on the fly if you haven't prepared a specific bunch of settings for a particular song.

I use the tap tempo very seldom, maybe when I am setting up and saving a style for a particular song? Yes, tap tempo live is very dangerous in a live situation. There was a model of the Roland GoKeys that actually had Alexa built in. You can shout Alexa “Slow down” or “Speed up”…

 

[Rosie C]

Most higher end arrangers have a “tap tempo” button. This will set the tempo based on how you hit this button, much like counting off in a band.

Thanks for the reply. Since I posted this I did a bit more research. It's early days but it seems that Ableton Live can play out a MIDI file based on the live tempo it receives - e.g. from a microphone on a drum. Of course that means adding a laptop to what we take to performances. But when I get a moment it's something I'm definitely going to try.

 

[JerryPH]

I do think the need for an arranger module will become obsolete. To have an accordion with arranger built-in may be the answer to some. Especially, those that play ballroom dance music. I have seen them around. Petosa has one I have seen demonstrated.

I don’t think that you have a lot of experience with arrangers? They are very complex and the “good ones” won’t fit in a standard accordion unless you like 40 pound accordions with 8-12 inch screens?

Arrangers are performing accordionist’s best friends, making one person sound like a complete band, not something that is easily implemented, A good examp,e is the LIMEX version… very nice but comparing a Volkswagen to a Cadillac when compared with something like the Ketron Event X.

 

[dak]

I don’t think that you have a lot of experience with arrangers? They are very complex and the “good ones” won’t fit in a standard accordion unless you like 40 pound accordions with 8-12 inch screens?

Arrangers are performing accordionist’s best friends, making one person sound like a complete band, not something that is easily implemented, A good examp,e is the LIMEX version… very nice but comparing a Volkswagen to a Cadillac when compared with something like the Ketron Event X.

Miniaturization goes a long way.

The problem is that a good arranger has buttons. Lots of them. While in practice they are usually used with prepared styles, you want to be able to jump into requests (and work of your own) and that requires taking control, and the kind of things you can stuff into an accordion grille is limited and has limited visibility.

Most of the computational power of arrangers is actually spent expanding samples, and the Rolands already can do that. Controls and updates just don't scale well to the size and longevity of an accordion.

 

[Ventura]

from a gig perspective, a big issue is when consolidating
more functions into a single source, you sacrifice the ability
to "punt" and get through a gig when something
goes wrong with (some of) your equipment

for many of us, this is simply a poison pill: building an arranger
into your digital/midi accordion and completely relying upon that
for a gig.

external, discreet arrangers and/or rhythm machines have been
around for a long time, and have always been in the "pro"
category for design through build, and so have a well proven track
record for reliability and ruggedness, as well as fitness of purpose.

originally, much of MIDI and digital accordions were like
"Tokyo at Night" modern electronics with tons of buttons, lights,
and other arcane cool stuff that usually was strange to accordion
people.. eventually manufacturers got a clue and began making
accordions, even electronic and digital ones, look and act and
SWiTCH more like normal accordions.. and even at that many
owners still find it difficult to make programs or presets and
even FiND them again when they need them..

add in the extra complexity of an arranger.. do you dumb it down?
do you bury the menu's 3 deep? do you have a bluetooth to give
foot pedals for triggering the a/b patterns or the rhythm breaks ?
the lead in's and the end fades ? or do you give them up ?

adding in functions/consolidating gear also causes the individual
equipment price to rise, which is a problem for the MANY people who
will never use an arranger, period, so why would they want to pay
another $1000 for the new one over last years model that
is just an accordion ?

sidebar: the tap-tempo was another innovation bought to us by
Mr. Kakehashi in his Rhythm Ace, which was incorporated into many
Hammond Organs that had his machines built in.. the tap tempo
is cool but you DO have to be good at your rhythm to use it
effectively, and there is often a good reason we are accordion
players (not drummers) that gets in the way of using the feature
reliably.. it is cool though to tap the plate, freeze the tempo for the
moment, then 4 taps and hit a key and the new speed takes off

 

[Rosie C]

from a gig perspective, a big issue is when consolidating
more functions into a single source, you sacrifice the ability
to "punt" and get through a gig when something
goes wrong with (some of) your equipment

This! I spoke with someone he uses Ableton, and he said it's great 99% of the time, but if it loses its lock on your rhythm it quickly goes very badly wrong and that having a mute pedal for it was recommended!

 

[KeysFla]

I don’t think that you have a lot of experience with arrangers? They are very complex and the “good ones” won’t fit in a standard accordion unless you like 40 pound accordions with 8-12 inch screens?

Arrangers are performing accordionist’s best friends, making one person sound like a complete band, not something that is easily implemented, A good examp,e is the LIMEX version… very nice but comparing a Volkswagen to a Cadillac when compared with something like the Ketron Event X.

why have a screen on accordion? iPad connectivity is the way to go. Check out Zenith One by Cavanolo. It has its own pad. I believe Event X has a similar unit. But prefer hardware control, since I think it may be more reliable?
The Korg pa5x is the newest one I own. Use the pa3x on the gig. The Musikant version, which has the German styles added fits better for an accordionist. I hope to see these styles added to the Event X, which may be a selling factor to me. But think one of the styles group (Party) has many of the styles I could use.
I make my living out of playing full-time and need the keyboard arranger in the event (no pun intended) my accordion would break-down. There is a musician in Ireland whom plays the Event keyboard, travels all over Europe and sometimes United States. His performance shows the best demonstration of the Event I have seen.

 

[JerryPH]

why have a screen on accordion? iPad connectivity is the way to go. Check out Zenith One by Cavanolo. It has its own pad. I believe Event X has a similar unit. But prefer hardware control, since I think it may be more reliable?
The Korg pa5x is the newest one I own. Use the pa3x on the gig. The Musikant version, which has the German styles added fits better for an accordionist. I hope to see these styles added to the Event X, which may be a selling factor to me. But think one of the styles group (Party) has many of the styles I could use.
I make my living out of playing full-time and need the keyboard arranger in the event (no pun intended) my accordion would break-down. There is a musician in Ireland whom plays the Event keyboard, travels all over Europe and sometimes United States. His performance shows the best demonstration of the Event I have seen.

Because it’s been proven that Bluetooth is NOT reliable in maintaining connectivity in venues where you have a lot of interference… ie: other phones, etc. A performer needs 100% guaranteed connection to their arranger.

This is something that I experimented a lot with a few years back… the BK7m has an iOS control panel… as a professional, I could not depend on it. Same thing happens with consoles with iPads and I even tried setting up my iPad to communicate with my DAW in my basement… just not reliable. I love my iPad, use it a lot in my setup, but never to control my arrangers with, and honestly, in a professional environment, I would never depend on BlueTooth for anything critical (and I do have a completely wireless setup that sends changes to my arranger and 8X! )

The Event X performer, know his name or YT links to see him in action? Would love to see an accordionist using this piece of expensive hardware.

 

[KeysFla]

Because it’s been proven that Bluetooth is NOT reliable in maintaining connectivity in venues where you have a lot of interference… ie: other phones, etc. A performer needs 100% guaranteed connection to their arranger.

This is something that I experimented a lot with a few years back… the BK7m has an iOS control panel… as a professional, I could not depend on it. Same thing happens with consoles with iPads and I even tried setting up my iPad to communicate with my DAW in my basement… just not reliable. I love my iPad, use it a lot in my setup, but never to control my arrangers with, and honestly, in a professional environment, I would never depend on BlueTooth for anything critical.

Use no wireless midi on gig. The iPad is plugged into arranger device port. Use it just to select songs on arranger and mapp my control foot pedals. So the only wireless Bluetooth is from my Airturn pedals to iPad. Very good, no problems. The widi connected to accordion is not reliable. Even the Roland wireless dongle has not proven to be reliable. But who needs to stroll out with arranger playing. The Roland accordion does a great job on its own when I need to go to a table to play a special song.
BTW…the best arranger I now use on gig is over 10 years old…enjoy my new Korg Pa5x as a home therapy product……excellent upgrade…

 

[KeysFla]

The most fun arranger I use is the Korg pa1000. Has all the features of the PA4x and weighs 3 pounds more than the FR4x. The most unique styles is the Add-on Musikant styles ($175). One of the best styles I have heard on any arranger. It also has quality built in speakers which is great for monitoring on stage.
Have the PA5x which is absolutely amazing too. Looking out for a compact version for the PA5x like they did with the PA4x, pa1000. It has been rumored there may be a Genos 2 Yamaha compact version soon.
It is a matter of taste, but as an accordionists, the Korg Musikant add-on styles has been proven to fit those that do more ballroom and world music. Yet you have access to the same styles other arrangers use.

 

[Giovanni]

The most fun arranger I use is the Korg pa1000. Has all the features of the PA4x and weighs 3 pounds more than the FR4x. The most unique styles is the Add-on Musikant styles ($175). One of the best styles I have heard on any arranger. It also has quality built in speakers which is great for monitoring on stage.
Have the PA5x which is absolutely amazing too. Looking out for a compact version for the PA5x like they did with the PA4x, pa1000. It has been rumored there may be a Genos 2 Yamaha compact version soon.
It is a matter of taste, but as an accordionists, the Korg Musikant add-on styles has been proven to fit those that do more ballroom and world music. Yet you have access to the same styles other arrangers use.

Don 't hold your your breath ,Yamaha have no interest in making modules for accordionist I have had this conversation with Yamaha several times .

The most fun arranger I use is the Korg pa1000. Has all the features of the PA4x and weighs 3 pounds more than the FR4x. The most unique styles is the Add-on Musikant styles ($175). One of the best styles I have heard on any arranger. It also has quality built in speakers which is great for monitoring on stage.
Have the PA5x which is absolutely amazing too. Looking out for a compact version for the PA5x like they did with the PA4x, pa1000. It has been rumored there may be a Genos 2 Yamaha compact version soon.
It is a matter of taste, but as an accordionists, the Korg Musikant add-on styles has been proven to fit those that do more ballroom and world music. Yet you have access to the same styles other arrangers use.

 

[KeysFla]

Don 't hold your your breath ,Yamaha have no interest in making modules for accordionist I have had this conversation with Yamaha several times .

Not a module a keyboard arranger, like the psrSx900…possibility…

 

[Ronny 2201]

Hi Accordionplayers !
I have a question regarding the MS 40 and I hope I am in the right forum here !
If not, tell me please where to load up my question. Thank you.

Got a MS 40 and I still use the diskettes. Now I know, that I can setup an USB player instead of the Discetdriver ( sorry abot my bad english..... )
Do I need to buy the Nalbantov USB- Drive emulator ot can I insertany other emulator ?
Thanks for your reply in advance !

 

[dak]

Hi Accordionplayers !
I have a question regarding the MS 40 and I hope I am in the right forum here !
If not, tell me please where to load up my question. Thank you.

Got a MS 40 and I still use the diskettes. Now I know, that I can setup an USB player instead of the Discetdriver ( sorry abot my bad english..... )
Do I need to buy the Nalbantov USB- Drive emulator ot can I insertany other emulator ?
Thanks for your reply in advance !

The MS40 does not know what it is talking with, it just uses the normal floppy interface. On the plus side, any USB emulator will do. On the minus side, it will not be significantly faster than a floppy. But the reliability of the media is better, and of course, a large number of "images" fit on a single USB stick.

The floppies are of the 1.44MB type, and of course so must be the drive emulator. On groups.io there is a mailing list "solton" (previously on Yahoo). If you are into mailing lists, there are a number of old folks hanging out there.

 

[Ronny 2201]

Thank you dak for these information !

 

[Ventura]

it also depends on the internal cableing of your unit..
for example, my Korg's don't use a standard floopy cable interface,
so the Nab unit WAS the only one that was/is available to
order with a correctly wired custom interface for them

you cannot use a standard floppy drive to replace a worn out
one either on a Korg

then there is a piece of software you must download which will
allow you to "format" a usb stick to "look like" a 1.44 floppy drive
not all USB sticks will work, as this is now (also) older tech.. i looked for
some lower sized sticks on Amazon and once i found some that
worked nicely, bought a bunch.. also for my personal preference,
only set up one 1.44 partition on each stick to keep things simple
and in line with my same old same old habits with original floppy usage