Is a digital accordion a good choice?

[Duckling]

I am considering buying a digital accordion, which I guess limits it to a Roland fr-1xb. My main question is if this is wise or not for me.

I have no accordion experience, expect for trying one for about 15 min during the summer. However, I am self thought at the piano (which is also digital), and feel like I can manage that at the level I want to, and I have a good music ear. I have little to no music theory knowledge though. Still, I have always liked the accordion, so when I got the chance I immediately enjoyed it. The bass side makes so much sense, and without no prior knowledge I was able to jump straight into a simple song just by pulling up a bass chart and playing chords.

If I had the option, I would much prefer a real accordion, but as I live in a small apartment, using one would be practically impossible. Due to life, my time to practice would also be mostly at late evenings. In addition to being able to practice and play in silence, I guess that being able to use different sounding accordions is also a plus with a Roland, even if the other sounds are not of much interest. The thing that worries me though is if I at a later stage would be able to transfer the skill practiced on a digital, and play an acoustic without it being a too difficult adjustment? As I understand it, it is particularly the air flow and bellows that differentiates, like pressing the buttons would have no impact on the air flow. I am not sure if this makes it hard to adjust between instruments or not?

While a digital is about 3 times more expensive than I would like even as a used, it seems like I have the choice of saving up for one of those, or postpone the whole instrument a few years and see if the living situation changes so that an acoustic is an option.

I mentioned playing the piano, and also that I want a button accordion. The reason for this is that the accordion I played was a PA, but the right hand felt awkward for me. I also like that I can reach wider more easily on a CBA, and that transposing is easier. So that is my reason for considering buttons.

So, any relevant input to guide me would be appreciated.

 

[murathan]

It seems you have to buy digital according to your statements. It will not be the same experience but close. I d buy a piano accordion considering you know how to play, rather than start a new system.

 

[dunlustin]

I bought a button FR1X more than 10 years ago. It was the best thing to have done. For decades, opportunities to play turned on the time of day/ if the neighbours we at home/were the children asleep....
For the first time I could play when I wished and I believe it made a huge difference.
For me the FR1X PA has a range that is too small unless you want to play folk tunes in a limited number of keys.
So I agree the FR1X B is a much better choice - 3 octaves covers a lot of ground.
It takes a while to learn the keyboard but good learning material makes it easier.
Downsides:
Some will tell you the Roland is not an accordion. The advantage of this is that you can turn off the bellows if you need a break from that part of learning. (Short term only!)
You will probably find there are no more than a handful of sounds you really like - but maybe more than on a modest acoustic.
Bellows? Yes, it's different. That said, most Roland owners also use an acoustic - often they say that the Roland becomes their 'go to' instrument.
It's different but should not be enough to stop you.
I could go on but I won't.
PS I have moved on to a FR4X which is nice but in my opinion not essential.

 

[tcabot]

I was very happy with a Roland on two occasions. The day I bought it and the day I sold it.

 

[JerryPH]

For a beginner, I would suggest an acoustic accordion. If you think a piano accordion confused you, double that effect if you get a button accordion. Purchase from a known reputable good dealer, if you can.

 

[davidplaysaccordion]

I play a 4x , I love it. If you already play keys of any form the right skill transfers to a piano accordion really well. There are some differences but nothing major, I’m fact I think some things are easier on accordion just because of the different orientation of the keyboard.
The left hand is what it is, it’s just different and talked time to learn.
I always tell my accordion playing friends that the 4x is NOT an accordion but rather an electronic keyboard that you play like an accordion. That said the non accordion playing audience does not know or in general, care. Apart from the range of voices, both accordion based and other instruments, it just feels different from a ‘real’ accordion. Less bellows pumping needed for a star, depending on settings, can be reduced to nothing. Keys feel similar but not quite the same.
And while it may seem daft, I’ve developed a much better understanding of song structure and chord relationships in songs since taking up the accordion because of the way the left hand is organized.

 

[davidplaysaccordion]

PS. I have two acoustic accordions that sadly rarely get played anymore since I got the Roland.

 

[Thomas N]

I've had an FR-8X for almost 10 years now. It's my primary instrument.

However, recently I've restored some functionality to my acoustic Excelsior 960 and in the past month I've probably played it 70% of the time.

They complement each other quite well. If I had to start with only one, it would be a smaller acoustic that is lightweight and cost-efficient (not cheap!).

If I then really loved playing the accordion I would move into a Roland.

 

[nikola]

I started on a Roland with no prior experience (FR-1x in my case). Im very glad I did, I never would've had the chance to really practice and build a habit without the ability to play in the mornings and evenings when my apartment neighbors would otherwise be unappreciative

It is definitely not the same as an acoustic especially in bellows response, but it is close enough that as a beginner it took me a long time to really appreciate it. In my case Ive been fortunate to have a teacher, and I played acoustic at my lessons.

I ultimately upgraded to a FR-4X because the piano version of the FR1 was too limiting, and I still adore playing my digital instrument. I do own a small student acoustic LMM model these days as well (purchased after a year on digital) that I don't play as often due to apartment living, but it's been helpful to practice the difference in response and expression.

 

[debra]

You could get an acoustic accordion with MIDI fitted. Accordions with midi tend to have a "mute" switch which disabled the acoustic sound and lets you play just midi. That lets you practice in silence yet still offer you the acoustic accordion when you want to play that.
I tried a Roland but the buttons feel very mushy, not the feel I was expecting from something that tries to mimic an accordion. (The piano accordion version feels a bit better but of course the small ones have very limited range.)

 

[dak]

You could get an acoustic accordion with MIDI fitted. Accordions with midi tend to have a "mute" switch which disabled the acoustic sound and lets you play just midi. That lets you practice in silence yet still offer you the acoustic accordion when you want to play that.

That counts as "totally not the same" while a Roland counts as "not quite the same". A MIDI fitted acoustic accordion does not try to emulate an acoustic accordion and thus key articulation and bellows expression are quite not there when playing via MIDI. Still good for practising fingerings and speed and fluidity and hitting the right keys. In contrast, a Roland tries hard to emulate some fine points of an acoustic accordion.

The main problem is that accordion is a novelty hand-held reed organ with primitive chord mechanism. Its serious relatives reed organ and harmonium did not survive against the competition. The accordion survived because its weak points were constantly being fine-tuned into perfection: it has much less air usage than a pump organ, and because it is swimming so tight on its breath, it has gained expressivity that the less direct bellows control of a pressure harmonium (or even worse, a suction reed organ) does not provide in a similar manner.

It is quite an ungrateful instrument to emulate. A MIDI equipped acoustic accordion does not even try. A Roland tries hard but you don't really get into the same space of tone control as with an acoustic. With regard to "sounds like an accordion", you are not far off the mark. With regard to "lives and breathes and feels like an accordion", that's kind of a different thing. The audience misses out on less than the player does, which makes it a convenient performance instrument.

I don't think I follow Paul's suggestion here unless you are into music genres that benefit from a mixed acoustic/MIDI performance (Alpine music styles and some entertainment music will certainly benefit from using an arranger on the bass side while employing acoustic sound most of the time on the lead). However, accordions that are really good in that respect are quite expensive, particularly once you count in additional stuff like internal microphoning and external electronics that make for a rounded package. And they are not really intended for silent practice either.

If you want to go there, you'll notice in several years.

So I don't really have a good suggestion. If you really need silent practice, a Roland may be a good pick. But if it stays your only pick, you are missing out on some aspects of what accordions really are. Which may or may not be fine to you.

 

[Duckling]

Thanks for all your input, it is interesting reading about the different opinions. I have also been doing some reflection about the issue myself.

It seems that the consensus is that a digital is similar "enough" to an acoustic, but not the same. In the end, I think the option realistically stands between a roland that I can use, or an acoustic that would collect dust. In the end, I am taking up the instrument for my own enjoyment, so if I enjoy a digital then that will be good enough (at least until I can add a real one at a later stage).

My plan is then to wait for a used one, and also see if I can actually try playing one to see if it "feels" right. For some reason, most music stores in my country have zero accordions stocked (though I am sure they could order in from roland as they carry other Roland products). I guess it is not that popular as an instrument anymore around here.

I do plan on learning by myself, and have found some videos that seem to cover the most basics (like fingering). To the ones advocating for a PA version given that I play the piano, I know you make a good point. But after spending a lot of time reflecting on this I can't help but feeling like CBA is the better option. It gives a larger range (which for the frx1 makes a big difference), in addition to the easier transposing. Being able to reach notes that are further apart with more ease is also good. I suspect that after a month or two with steady practice, I should be able to get it partially "programmed" into my fingers. If anyone have a different experience I would be open to change my views on this, I suspect there are many here who have changed from PA to CBA, or tried a CBA while being familiar with the piano.

 

[dunlustin]

Do I detect a trend?
Those most enthusiastic about the Roland also play a Roland.
And vice versa?

 

[debra]

Do I detect a trend?
Those most enthusiastic about the Roland also play a Roland.
And vice versa?

Some (like me) did at least try a Roland and did not like it, especially not the button version, which is what Duckling is considering. The buttons on the Roland are very mushy. (I trust that on the large and expensive Bugari Evo they will be much better.) I think the buttons are partly like that because they must perform velocity detection for the emulation of instruments like the piano. Still, they do not feel at all like accordion buttons. A friend of mine really likes his Roland because it is an all-in-one entertainment system (he used to play gigs professionally), but he is playing the piano accordion version, not button.

 

[dak]

I think the buttons are partly like that because they must perform velocity detection for the emulation of instruments like the piano. Still, they do not feel at all like accordion buttons.

I think the problem here is that Roland uses its established technology. The velocity sensitive contact strips usually are linked to the player through pivoting piano keys. The buttons (both treble and bass side) don't have pivots but linear guides directly to the contact strips. This is semi-accurate on the bass side, and quite dissimilar on the treble side. If you hit the linear variant off-center, you get additional friction from the guides. The pivoted versions just ignore sideway forces, at least regarding the key resistance.

In addition, velocity sensitivity has reasonable applicability on piano keyboards where the hand shapes are relaxed enough that you actually have individual strength control over your fingers. For accordion articulation (unless you want to model key noise), velocity is a distraction. What is trelevant to the principal sound rather is position. You could get there with magnets and analog Hall sensors (MIDIfication of acoustic accordions usually employs digital hall sensors which just transmits an on/off signal). Nobody does that, and Roland as an established keyboard specialist would likely have been a fool to try innovating in that area as well at the cost of getting good and consistent non-accordion sounds from their piano accordion offerings.

So getting realistic fine-grained control information from the keyboard for accordion sounds is still up for grabs, and of course once you have that information, you still need to translate it into sound.

But I digress: the tactile mismatch by the direct button mechanism is of course a separate problem. Since the Evo does link the treble buttons to pallets, it has to direct button movement through pivoting levers so it will likely will be quite better in that regard than the pure Roland button boards.

 

[dak]

Do I detect a trend?
Those most enthusiastic about the Roland also play a Roland.
And vice versa?

It's not really pertinent to accordions. "Why what I stick with is a really bad choice and I will not tire of telling people how stupid I am" is not exactly a common trope.

 

[dunlustin]

Duckling, from what you write you have considered your options and will know that disagreement is not unknown and sometimes even useful.
In the end, it's all just opinion.

Re: "not really pertinent to" - is it 'not unique to'? and by the way 'Glib' is not a synonym for 'convincing.'
PS: Didn't the button version come first?

Following the Abba holograms, I look forward to a beyond-the-grave debate between Segovia and Jeff Beck.
They too will have strong arguments to support their opinions.
Why did some idiot put two extra frets to the neck and what's the point in a longer scale length?

Have I misremembered, or did the Conservatoires reject the accordion as not a proper instrument and unworthy of serious musicians?
(I know, it's a rant but indulge me, please.)

 

[RTW]

If not mentioned already, the practical and most sensible thing to do is to go to an Accordion Place that has the accordions you are considering - then play each one. And, start out with an accordion teacher

Regards,
RTW

 

[Tom]

Hi Duckling,

I think you are making a good choice for yourself in pursuing a used frx1b for the reasons you state. I use an acoustic for gigs and a Roland for silent practice. I enjoy playing my acoustics more but this is only personal choice as I have not taken the time to apply the advantages of the Roland in performance.

In my humble opinion it is good to examine the differences between the Roland and an acoustic accordion. The choice of which to play will be determined by which excels at the factors most relevant to a particular player. Want more voices, drums, silent practice (etc.), get a Roland. Want “authentic” sound, no need for power, more expressive handling of tone (maybe), get an acoustic.

I think it is rare that a person who is really into accordion playing uses only owns one or the other, but not unheard of, as represented here.

Anyway, it brings me joy merely that you want to play, and I hope you quickly find a used fr1xb and add your personal love and expression because the world sure needs it (zen ). Good luck!!!!!

 

[Thomas N]

I'll add one thing. My wife has heard me play the Roland for literally thousands of hours over the years. Whenever I used to take out my 960 to play it was only for 10 minutes a month and she was never around.

The first time she was around and I had it connected to my amp and played for an hour she came into our music room and said "wow, that sounds just incredible!"

Whether that's because it was different from what she was used to, or the sound of a higher-end acoustic is unmatched in comparison to any digital accordion, is anyone's guess.