Scandalli Super VI

[danp76]

For those of you that have played a vintage Scandalli Super VI how would you compare them to other top tier accordions in that time period? Did you find them so much better or a similar experience? I know that they typically demand a high price in great condition, much more so than other top models of that time. I have a few top level Titano's and an SS 20 Sonola from the 60's. I never played a Super VI from that era, do you guys find them so much better?

Do you think that any new top-level accordions come close to a vintage Super VI? or not possible? Thanks!

 

[Ventura]

have a few top level Titano's and an SS 20 Sonola from the 60's

if you have a few great accordions from the golden age
you do not need a Super VI

in fact, if you have even one great Excelsior, Pan, Bell,
etc. etc. etc. brands pro accordions from the golden age
you do not need a Super VI

you do not need a Gola either

but they are nice to have

there were so many made, and so many Pro's playing them,
but most of them are gone now and few of us are left so
there has been a glut of great accordions at bargain prices
from estate sales for 50 years now, and when most of us trip
over one we buy it too..

but we don't NEED another one when we already
have a great Pro accordion, it is just that after having
had a great accordion for a long time, you appreciate
when you play a different one that is great and you
enjoy it immensely because you can tell

so many accordions of that period were amazing to
have.. the competition at the top was fierce.. making
a living with one meant it had to be great in so many ways

there are a few newly built accordions that could possibly make
even a curmudgeon like ME smile, but just like a good Hamburger,
i somehow enjoy my meal more when i got it at reasonable cost.

a footlong Sub just tastes better with a $6.99 coupon

paying too much for something, paying WAAAAAY to much
for something, like some well hyped new accordion or incredibly
overpriced old accordion of dubious origin and heritage means
if i played it, i actually would not enjoy it immensely because the
thought of how many poor children had to go without their Supper...

oh well..

once again, i have said too much ..

 

[Zevy]

I really feel that you have to get your hands on one and then make your decision. I have played a number of these great accordions. They are really superior. I never felt that it was so much better that I would want to get my hands on one for keeps. But the only way to find out is to try it.

 

[colinm]

I had two Super vi , one belonged to Ernie Pieper , I was told they were not the best but they were the best I have ever had, I found the SS 20 ok but too heavy

 

[JerryPH]

For those of you that have played a vintage Scandalli Super VI how would you compare them to other top tier accordions in that time period?

First I want you to understand that YOUR experience of playing a Super VI might not be the same as mine, so I will start out with a very straight forward comment, please do not be offeneded.

NO ONE else's comments or opinions matter. If you are interested at this level, YOU need to play one yourself and make your own choices. On top of the fact that even 1 super VI can be vastly different from another, one really excellent and the other very mediocre, this is not a "is a Super VI better than X-Y-Z?", it is a "how does THIS EXACT Super VI compare to THIS EXACT other model to me when I play both?".

Also, you need to ask yourself are you a good enough player to even hear or feel the differences. You see, once you get past a certain level, accordions start to be less about the experience what others in front of you hear and more about what you FEEL.

Did you find them so much better or a similar experience?

They are nice to play. On a 60's version that was expertly maintained by an expert, the experience is nice, the sound excellent, but in my personal OPINION, no better in sound quality than a top of the line Brandoni, Serenellini, Dallapè, etc... the sound varies greatly between models but the differences in what they made me feel are minor.

Remember, not everyone wants a Caddilac, some want a Rolls Royce, some want a bus, others want a station wagon. You need to ask yourself what do YOU need.

I know that they typically demand a high price in great condition, much more so than other top models of that time. I have a few top level Titano's and an SS 20 Sonola from the 60's. I never played a Super VI from that era, do you guys find them so much better?

Yes, there are some sonic qualities that lower models like an SS20 won't be able to match... MAYBE, if you can hear and feel them yourself.

Do you think that any new top-level accordions come close to a vintage Super VI? or not possible? Thanks!

Yes. My personal choice was a Hohner Gola 459 (even though I could have had 2 or 3 Super IV for the price of my Gola) and I travelled from Quebec Canada to Amsterdam Netherlands to pick up my Gola. I can openly and with prejudice (lol) say that I am a huge fan of the Gola. I was supposed to have one has a younger man, I heard them played around me for all the years I was studying in the Conservatory, I've played on Gola many times through out my life, from a time where it sounded no better to me than my Hohner Morino VI N, to the time I could start comparing back to back various Gola and appreciate the subtle differences. Some were ordinary, some were amazing and one places a smile on my face just looking at it from 12 feet away, much less the great pleasure I feel when just playing anything on it.

For me:
- a Gola was the ONLY accordion that I played that raised the hairs on my arms when I played it
- a Gola was the ONLY accordion that came in a 45 key extended keyboard, 5/5 reed configuration with a 185 bass MIII Free Bass layout of the highest quality I have ever heard.
- TO ME, in MY opinion, there is no better sounding accordion, and I have had the chance to play many top of the line accordions from many manufacturers, Scandalli, Siwa-Figli, Titano, Dallapè, Serenellini, and many others. Some come close, none reacher higher.

But I repeat... this is me and my opinion. I've waited many decades and did my homework for the pleasure of owning my Gola. I would expect that if someone is serious about such a high level instrument (ANY instrument, that they can truluy cherish and play with complete pleasure), that they do their own homework and never just depend on the opinions of others.

Just like you should never buy a car without driving it, you should never even consider the purchase of an accordion you never played.

 

[JerryPH]

you do not need a Gola either
but they are nice to have

Kinda... it was nice enough to be a life changing experience for me.

Seriously, we could even say that no one even really NEEDS an accordion... but, my take is that we are on this lump of rock just once and as long as my family is taken care of (and more), there was no reason not to make my dream come true!

 

[danp76]

Some great information here guys! Thank you! I guess my curiosity was if a Titano Royal, Excelsior Symphony Grand or an SS 20 could even be comparable in tone and playability to a legendary Scandallli Supver VI. For that matter, can new accordions be comparable in sound and playability. Or does the Gola and Scandalli Super VI stand in an entirely different league and playing experience?

 

[John M]

Maybe a little off topic, I have a Roland 8X. I also have an Excelsior 960 that is a great acoustic accordion, that I will keep. It needs a "tune up", especially on the M. Vivace (M+, M-) musette reed selection. It is beautiful, but as I go up the keyboard, I hear the nice progression of the "tremolo" and then it changes quite a lot, going from a fast tremolo to a slow tremolo on the next note and then varying tremolo between notes. My guess, it has never had a "tune up". I'm going to take it to Tim Swanson of Capital Accordions in Columbus, Ohio that is 2 hours from me.)

The problem with acoustic accordions is, they are "man made" and they don't all sound the same. Even the Hammond B3's, that were an electro-mechanical organ did not all sound the same. All B3 circuitry was analog and the tone generator had "crosstalk/noise" issues between the different frequencies depending on the "magnetic field coupling" between the tonewheels. They were in a cluster of 4 tonewheels in a shielded bin to eliminate coupling. Also, the frequencies of the 4 tonewheels were far apart) . Bottom line -- all Hammond B3's do not sound the same.

One thing about a digital accordion (be an 8X, Fisa, etc., whether you like it or not), they will always sound the same.
Also, they won't go out of tune.

 

[JerryPH]

One thing about a digital accordion (be an 8X, Fisa, etc., whether you like it or not), they will always sound the same.
Also, they won't go out of tune.

John, you know how much I like my 8X... my Scandalli acoustic has not had a touch up in 55 years, my Morino, one touch up but more likely because it sat for 38 years, also needed 6 treble valves (today I saw it needs 2 valves on specific free bass notes). Not bad for a 52 year old accordion.

If you treat a good accordion properly, it is amazing how long a quality accordion with good reeds lasts without any tuning touch ups. Now if you are a studio musician, I can see it needing a touch up every 3-5 years. Pros that make the BIG bucks on their accordions have it looked at once a year, but the amount of work is likely extremely minor. Manfred Leucter has his Gola done every year. His process took 2-3 hours. Most of that time was spent checking more than anything else.

At the conservatory, it was common to NOT touch a Gola until well past 50 years. I would LOVE my 8X to last 50 years, but its likely never going to.

 

[danp76]

This is quite true, I love playing my older Excelsior Symphony Grand from the early 1950's, sounds fantastic!

 

[PhiliGol]

First I want you to understand that YOUR experience of playing a Super VI might not be the same as mine, so I will start out with a very straight forward comment, please do not be offeneded.

NO ONE else's comments or opinions matter. If you are interested at this level, YOU need to play one yourself and make your own choices. On top of the fact that even 1 super VI can be vastly different from another, one really excellent and the other very mediocre, this is not a "is a Super VI better than X-Y-Z?", it is a "how does THIS EXACT Super VI compare to THIS EXACT other model to me when I play both?".

Also, you need to ask yourself are you a good enough player to even hear or feel the differences. You see, once you get past a certain level, accordions start to be less about the experience what others in front of you hear and more about what you FEEL.


They are nice to play. On a 60's version that was expertly maintained by an expert, the experience is nice, the sound excellent, but in my personal OPINION, no better in sound quality than a top of the line Brandoni, Serenellini, Dallapè, etc... the sound varies greatly between models but the differences in what they made me feel are minor.

Remember, not everyone wants a Caddilac, some want a Rolls Royce, some want a bus, others want a station wagon. You need to ask yourself what do YOU need.


Yes, there are some sonic qualities that lower models like an SS20 won't be able to match... MAYBE, if you can hear and feel them yourself.


Yes. My personal choice was a Hohner Gola 459 (even though I could have had 2 or 3 Super IV for the price of my Gola) and I travelled from Quebec Canada to Amsterdam Netherlands to pick up my Gola. I can openly and with prejudice (lol) say that I am a huge fan of the Gola. I was supposed to have one has a younger man, I heard them played around me for all the years I was studying in the Conservatory, I've played on Gola many times through out my life, from a time where it sounded no better to me than my Hohner Morino VI N, to the time I could start comparing back to back various Gola and appreciate the subtle differences. Some were ordinary, some were amazing and one places a smile on my face just looking at it from 12 feet away, much less the great pleasure I feel when just playing anything on it.

For me:
- a Gola was the ONLY accordion that I played that raised the hairs on my arms when I played it
- a Gola was the ONLY accordion that came in a 45 key extended keyboard, 5/5 reed configuration with a 185 bass MIII Free Bass layout of the highest quality I have ever heard.
- TO ME, in MY opinion, there is no better sounding accordion, and I have had the chance to play many top of the line accordions from many manufacturers, Scandalli, Siwa-Figli, Titano, Dallapè, Serenellini, and many others. Some come close, none reacher higher.

But I repeat... this is me and my opinion. I've waited many decades and did my homework for the pleasure of owning my Gola. I would expect that if someone is serious about such a high level instrument (ANY instrument, that they can truluy cherish and play with complete pleasure), that they do their own homework and never just depend on the opinions of others.

Just like you should never buy a car without driving it, you should never even consider the purchase of an accordion you never played.

I can only second Jerry: listen to your heart / your belly and you won't go wrong.
I had the luxury to test a vintage Super VI next to a Gola (about same age),
I finally decided for the Gola and never regretted.
But as Jerry said: it should be YOUR personal decision and if you prefer the Super VI over any other everything's right.
Both instruments are within the premier league.

 

[dak]

NO ONE else's comments or opinions matter. If you are interested at this level, YOU need to play one yourself and make your own choices. On top of the fact that even 1 super VI can be vastly different from another, one really excellent and the other very mediocre, this is not a "is a Super VI better than X-Y-Z?", it is a "how does THIS EXACT Super VI compare to THIS EXACT other model to me when I play both?".

The one thing to keep in mind that the "golden era" instruments tend to be from a time when many processes were not mechanically reproducible. Which means that a significant part of any instrument's appeal lies with how the humans involved in the process have worked on creating a coherent instrument and sound quality from it. I've heard anecdotally of someone collecting Morino VM instruments and he had about a dozen from the 1950s and/or early 60s because he said "they are all different". Then at some time, things became more reproducible and the amount of hand-finishing went down, making for more consistent quality of the particular models. But also a loss of what is perceived as more elusive qualities.

So you really need to check out the individual instrument you may be considering to buy if we are talking about top-of-the-line golden-era instruments. If you have one you like tremendously and think that getting another instrument sharing the exact same model designation will be just the same: nope. There will be a good bout of similarity. But there is no guarantee that it will ring the same bells with you.

 

[danp76]

I guess my overall question is from those of you that have played them extensively, have you noticed a huge difference in the playing experience. That is, is the tone and the mechanics of it so much better? Was it way better than other vintage top accordions? Way better than anything new? I know this is just anecdotal information, but just looking what people think of it, or are they overrated, and a bit of exaggerated opions of it?

 

[Ventura]

i own and have owned and played a lot of pro accordions,
and a lot of just plain old accordions too

in my mind i really don't rate them 1 to 50 because that
is not at all what is important (to me)

in my mind, i simply play it and decide to myself whether the accordion
can outplay me or not, and then i evaluate the tone and features of the
accordion so that i can know if it is the best one to take for this kind
of gig or that kind of gig (one accordion has NEVER fit all afaiam concerned)

i don't take an accordion to a gig because it's my favorite, i take it
because it's the best one for the job, so i don't need to have a favorite..
when i practice in the Studio it is the same thing.. which box is best for
stuff i am working on

all pro accordions should be able to outplay me, and that is all that
matters really. if i can outplay an accordion, it would limit my growth..
accordions i can outplay are still useful for other things lesser uses
decorative purposes gifting to beginners

so to answer your question, just buy the darn thing if you want it and
if you can afford it and play the heck out of it, but if all your other
accordions sound great and if they can all outplay YOU so will
the Scandalli, but you might enjoy playing it more than the others
you own just because it is cool as hell to have it

 

[Thomas N]

in my mind, i simply play it and decide to myself whether the accordion
can outplay me or not,

This is what it really boils down to. Sometimes I'll think if I got the new Korg or a different acoustic than my 960 I'd be able to play so much better. Then I think "what if Pestauro picked up either of my accordions?" and I know damn well the answer is that he could fly on either of them and play at speeds I could only dream of. So it's not my accordions that are limiting me - it's me!

There is some truth that a shallow, fast keyboard, and perhaps a lighter more nimble accordion may allow one to play better, and I even notice that between my 960 and my FR-8X as the keyboard on the 960 is very shallow and extremely fast. But it all really comes down to the player.

And of course sound is subjective.