The Best & The Worst. (in your opinion)

[debra]

I have mentioned this accordion on another thread. I believe it is a Bugari Armando and so this would be the one. I think your friend Jon has one.

That is a Bugari 289/ARS, 4 reeds, cassotto, 45 keys, standard bass. Wonderful instrument indeed. (I had similar instruments from Bugari.) Although very good Im not sure it would make it to The Best given unlimited money. (You would for starters at least want the Silver or Gold version of this.)

 

[debra]

Im not sure that there is an accordion Id prefer over my Pidge.... more sound would also mean more weight. Maybe the Pigini Professional C226 - it has more voices and more notes at only another 2 kg, and if its called Professional itll make me play brilliantly, right? If I saw a Pigini in a car boot sale for £50 Id have to assume it was completely illegal!

Least likely: anything with that really wet tuning. Or a piano accordion.

When you are a Pigini fan and have unlimited funds go for the Nova. The best money can buy, but there is a long wait.

 

[maugein96]

I may have missed something - cant imagine why youd be looking for accordions in South America, when there are boatloads of French style CBAs in Portugal. Their online 2nd hand is olx.pt, and youll find some sellers there who have a number of them, so it might work out that you could check out a number of them without spending weeks charging around the country. One out in Penedono, way out in the country east of Porto, claims to have 800 pieces in stock, which could be a lot of junk but he clearly has dozens of accordions. I dont really know anything about a Super Bernard, if I vaguely recall it might be a Vercelli brand like Coope Armoniche, with cassotto, fungo bass buttons, thats one Id like to hear.

Hi Donn,

Sorry, I seem to have South American blinkers on at the moment, and completely forgot about Portugal. There are certainly some fascinating older Italian CBAs, as well as a lot of Cavagnolos, which seem to have formed the bulk of the mainstream market at one time.

I think most of them go for the smaller LMM boxes these days, although I have seen a lot of players with big 4 and maybe even 5 voice instruments on You Tube. Im not really that familiar with the CBAs used in Portugal. The Cavagnolos definitely sound way different from their French stablemates, and I suspect the two flute reeds on LMM boxes are tuned pretty close. Then, when I think Ive got it all worked out, somebody switches coupler and Im listening to a musette sound. I think that musette must be a two voice celeste tuning, possibly on LMMH accordions, but Im just not sure.

Best thing to do would be to go over there and find out! Ive seen the website you mention, and it certainly seems to be an Aladdins cave for second hand accordions.

800 accordions in the one place would certainly be something to see, and I might end up not coming back! Havent been to Portugal for some years, although my granddaughter is heading to The Alentejo in August to visit her fiances father. He lives on an old vineyard about a 45 minute drive from Beja, where Im sure there is at least one music shop. Ill maybe get her to report back, but wouldnt put money on her going out of her way to find it. Never heard of a Super Bernard, but if it is anything like a St Bernard it would be too heavy for me!

 

[Anyanka]

Im not sure that there is an accordion Id prefer over my Pidge.... more sound would also mean more weight. Maybe the Pigini Professional C226 - it has more voices and more notes at only another 2 kg, and if its called Professional itll make me play brilliantly, right? If I saw a Pigini in a car boot sale for £50 Id have to assume it was completely illegal!

Least likely: anything with that really wet tuning. Or a piano accordion.

When you are a Pigini fan and have unlimited funds go for the Nova. The best money can buy, but there is a long wait.

I had a look just now... probably fabulous, but 14.3kg. Not suitable for someone prone to putting her back out!!! Id only throw money at that if it came with a porter

 

[maugein96]

I dont really know anything about a Super Bernard, if I vaguely recall it might be a Vercelli brand like Coope Armoniche, with cassotto, fungo bass buttons, thats one Id like to hear.

Donn,

I sort of knew I had heard of Super Bernard before. They were made by Ranco Guglielmo in Vercelli, as you suspected.

I believe they had 4 voice treble. Ive seen them described as 3 voice, but the only ones Ive been able to find for sale (in France) have 7 treble couplers, suggesting that they are 4 voice. The bassoon reeds were in a tone chamber, and the MM reeds were often swing tuned. Its probable that the 4th voice was comprised of piccolo reeds, but I dare say they were also available as LMMM with three voice musette. They do have mushroom stepped bass buttons, and the treble couplers are on the rear of the keyboard, French style.

You may see them with the word GENEVE lettered on the top of the bass side, but I dont know the significance of that. Geneva isnt near the St Bernard Pass, but who knows why anything is stuck on an accordion at times? As far as I can remember they were marketed in France as suitable for jazz. That may have been because they were swing tuned off the shelf, but the French also seem to think that the presence of a row of dim7 buttons makes any box a jazz accordion.

All I need to do now is try and find one on my beloved You Tube, so we can get an idea of what they sounded like. Ranco always had a fantastic reputation in Europe for quality and sound, so I think you could virtually bank on that being the case with the Super Bernard.

Give me an hour and Ill probably discover you could get them as 3 voice after all, and GENEVE had a city accordion band which would account for the reason that ever other one you see has that logo on it!

EDIT:- Available in 3 or 4 voice in various reed combinations. Also found a Bernard Junior. Still havent heard one!

 

[maugein96]

Donn,

Looks like the Super Bernard is a collectors item these days. As a consolation, heres a French kid playing a paso on an old Ranco. I would imagine the sound of a Super Bernard would be similar to this one. Dont reckon youd need much amplification at your average gig, and you could maybe even cover two nearby venues at once with one of these!

 

[Pianoman1]

Me I am biased I would just whip down to Sarf London and wave my lottery winnings at Emilio and say what you got in 72 or 96

My first box was an ex Morris Hohner which had a lousy keyboard and missing notes I would not like that back again

I nice 72 Allodi would suit me

 

[xocd]

The lightest LMMH Pigini CBA C-system converter with LM in cassotto.

 

[debra]

The lightest LMMH Pigini CBA C-system converter with LM in cassotto.

Pigini has a Super Compact which has 52 notes (E to very high G). (The website says 58 notes but thats an error.) It has LM in cassotto. It is a very nice instrument. Not sure who actually makes it. Bugari has the 540/ARS/C which is absolutely identical in construction but has the 52 notes going from Cis to very high E which I find more useful as a range.
This accordion (whoever actually makes it) is a marvel of engineering and produces sound just like the larger instruments.
(I have the Bugari version, not the Pigini.) For people looking for compact without compromise this is definitely the best.

 

[Krikri]

Super Bernard accordions come from Swiss, Genève (french spoken area in Swiss). They were built by Ranco in Italia for the Swiss market. They are very powerfull instruments with 4+2 bass system, not the french once (3+3). Very uncommon in France.

 

[xocd]

Pigini has a Super Compact which has 52 notes (E to very high G). ...For people looking for compact without compromise this is definitely the best.

Paul,

Thank you very mucho for pointing out this accordion. It seems to sell for around 9000 Euros. If one was willing to spend that, Importing one into the USA could be interesting.

 

[debra]

Pigini has a Super Compact which has 52 notes (E to very high G). ...For people looking for compact without compromise this is definitely the best.

...
Thank you very mucho for pointing out this accordion. It seems to sell for around 9000 Euros. If one was willing to spend that, Importing one into the USA could be interesting.

I was extremely lucky to find the Bugari one in an auction and got it for 1/3 of that price. It is too compact for me but my wife absolutely loves it. The trouble with prices is that such a compact instrument uses almost the same amount of material as a larger bayan, yet people expect smaller to automatically mean cheaper but you cannot really expect such an instrument to be much cheaper than a larger instrument.

 

[Tom]

The import duty on 9000 euros might be about $125. (I think, based on my accordion)

 

[debra]

The import duty on 9000 euros might be about $125. (I think, based on my accordion)

The import duty is the negligible part. The 9000 euro price tag is the problem. I would never have bought this (Bugari) even at 2/3 of the price, even though when I look at it technically (inside and out) I know it is worth it. I always feel that big money should buy you a big accordion...

 

[Tom]

Yes, that is a lot of money, even for a super nice accordion.

 

[Anyanka]

Pigini has a Super Compact which has 52 notes (E to very high G). (The website says 58 notes but thats an error.) It has LM in cassotto. It is a very nice instrument. Not sure who actually makes it. Bugari has the 540/ARS/C which is absolutely identical in construction but has the 52 notes going from Cis to very high E which I find more useful as a range.
This accordion (whoever actually makes it) is a marvel of engineering and produces sound just like the larger instruments.
(I have the Bugari version, not the Pigini.) For people looking for compact without compromise this is definitely the best.

11.5kg! Now youre talking. And 9000+ Euro - thats a good lottery win aim, cause I wouldnt even look at that in real life.

 

[debra]

...

11.5kg! Now youre talking. And 9000+ Euro - thats a good lottery win aim, cause I wouldnt even look at that in real life.

Never ever believe the weight specified by a manufacturer! None of the accordions I have ever seen weighed what the manufacturer specified and the difference is typically 1 kg or more (heavier of course). Still, even at 12.5kg its not bad for an accordion with cassotto and convertor, 52 notes RH and 49 LH.
You are right that the price makes it feel like a good lottery win aim and when I managed to get it through the auction and it turned out allright and brand new it felt like winning the lottery.