Korg FISA SUPREMA

[Giovanni]

I haven't listened to any of the videos yet but will do so later this morning. Interesting reading these comments here.

Off the top this would seem a hard sell for me personally. Not enough to move away from my FR-8X. I purchased it in 2015 and it's been solid for the past decade with literally hundreds of hours of playing it.

I think I use my FR-8X in a different manner than most, however. I use predominantly a jazz bassoon register I customized to my taste, a string bass with organ chord, and a Master Accordion register occasionally. The main draw for me is light weight, ability to use headphones for practice, and much less effort on bellow push and pull. For that, it's been wonderful.

I used all of the orchestral sounds and drums for probably the first year but felt they didn't add anything to my playing.

At $8K US that's around $8700 US with taxes and shipping. Even if the selling price is below the MAP and the total is $8000 US that's really steep for a digital accordion.

I bought my Yamaha Montage M8x last January and it is their State of the Art flagship workstation. It is just amazing. I think it was $5K shipped to my door and I play it daily and love it. It feels like a piano and I'll never begin to approach using 10% of the things you can do with it.

As a humorous aside, I agree with the comments about the "aging" parameter and all the BS additions to make it sound like an old acoustic accordion. The M8x has hundreds of sounds with intentional pops and clicks to simulate vinyl records or old time pianos. You can eliminate these "features" and with 4000 sounds they get lost in the mix, but there' a subset of users out there that really enjoys this. I'm not sure why.

I take it with a grain of salt whoever sponsors whatever accordion. I recall Frank Marocco and Petosa and they still use his "the best accordion I have ever played" on their website. Then he was all Victoria. And he was FR-8X for a short bit. But on a lot of his albums he always played his Giuletti. Dick Contino was Petosa, and Cordovox back in the day. Art Van Damme was Excelsior. But I think they all follow the money and who knows what they truly think. Since they are the top of the top my personal feeling is it doesn't matter what they play because they are so talented. The minions (rest of us) hear them play that particular instrument and think, hey, that sounds great. I should get one too. It's neither here nor there. That's why I tend to value YouTube reviews of peasants like myself playing an instrument and providing their thoughts.

And I'm not a hypocrite. If Korg dropped a Fisa off on my doorstep and told me it's free for a sponsorship, this would be my 100th post in this forum on how incredible the instrument is!

Everything you say is correct and I understand your point of View .
The montage is a wonderful top of the range Yamaha workstation . I think that you could even midi it up to your Roland FR-8X WOW that would be one heck of a sound ...unbeatable !!!
Over the years I met Dick Contino several times and we used to meet up at the Vegas Convention ......He never really liked the Cordovox as he used to travel all over the states and he found it some what troublesome and prone to being unreliable ......mainly due to all the travelling and Vibration it was subject to. He said America is a vast Country with a lot of no where in between and trying to find anyone who understood the Cordovox virtually impossible ........He never wanted to be called Mr Cordovox !! and preferred to play his Petosa by god that instrument took some playing punishment from his style of playing ........but it would always work !!

 

[petch]

disappointing that the button model is the same body as the piano one

 

[Thomas N]

Everything you say is correct and I understand your point of View .
The montage is a wonderful top of the range Yamaha workstation . I think that you could even midi it up to your Roland FR-8X WOW that would be one heck of a sound ...unbeatable !!!
Over the years I met Dick Contino several times and we used to meet up at the Vegas Convention ......He never really liked the Cordovox as he used to travel all over the states and he found it some what troublesome and prone to being unreliable ......mainly due to all the travelling and Vibration it was subject to. He said America is a vast Country with a lot of no where in between and trying to find anyone who understood the Cordovox virtually impossible ........He never wanted to be called Mr Cordovox !! and preferred to play his Petosa by god that instrument took some playing punishment from his style of playing ........but it would always work !!

Completely agree. I met him only once in our hometown when he came to demo some kind of digital accordion. I went with my father. I can't recall what accordion it was and I was young - maybe 12 or 13. I just remember his charm and smiling enthusiasm and of course was blown away that anybody could play the accordion that well.

And one of the things that still interests me about Petosa is exactly what you stated - Contino beat the heck out of his accordions with massive bellows shakes and very physical playing. And yep, they never broke down.

 

[CPez]

Hey Guys!!!! It’s Cory Pesaturo!! I Just found this forum!! I’ll get to MANY of your statements, rumors & concerns asap, but I’m going to have to quote a Ton of you from all the posts, so give me time haha

The One thing I’ll say Right Now though - It’s Not exactly going to be $8000! My God, So many times I read that. That’s the Online Store Price, as in Sweetwater, Kraft Music, and Guitar Center / Musician’s Friend. You can buy at those, Or will be able to call select trusted dealers like Kevin Solecki, Lilliana and Alex at Music Magic, maybe even Greg V, Kimric in the Bay Area, and Musician’s Corner in RI that have been chosen (might be 1 more too).

Musically - Cory

 

[debra]

Hey Guys!!!! It’s Cory Pesaturo!! I Just found this forum!! I’ll get to MANY of your statements, rumors & concerns asap, but I’m going to have to quote a Ton of you from all the posts, so give me time haha

The One thing I’ll say Right Now though - It’s Not going to be $8000! Haha. My God joe many times I read that. That’s the ONLINE Store Price, as in Sweetwater, Kraft Music, and Guitar Center / Musician’s Friend. We are giving the dealers, who as we know in the Accordion World have been our family and friends for decades upon decades, the chance to sell at Whatever price they want, and making sure the Online Stores HAVE to sell at $8000. Kevin Solecki, Lilliana and Alex at Music Magic, maybe even Greg V, Kimric in the Bay Area, and Musician’s Corner in RI have been chosen & confirmed as the dealers (might be 1 more too) to be able to call & buy this from.

Musically - Cory

Glad to have you on board here, Cory!
You are very right to let people know that street prices may vary, and potentially be better than the list price currently mentioned by large on-line stores. Personally I would not buy an accordion from a large on-line store because they likely do not have enough knowledge about what they sell to really help their customers with questions or to fix minor issues (that do not require a factory repair center). Too many people do not appreciate the value of decent and knowledgeable dealers, whether it is for an acoustic or an electronic accordion.

 

[oldbayan]

This will be so supreme it will last about 6 months until new model arrives "Suprema II"

Probably not, but a few software updates are likely to be released in the weeks following its availability.

 

[Tom]

Hey Guys!!!! It’s Cory Pesaturo!! I Just found this forum!! I’ll get to MANY of your statements, rumors & concerns asap, but I’m going to have to quote a Ton of you from all the posts, so give me time haha

The One thing I’ll say Right Now though - It’s Not exactly going to be $8000! My God, So many times I read that. That’s the Online Store Price, as in Sweetwater, Kraft Music, and Guitar Center / Musician’s Friend. You can buy at those, Or will be able to call select trusted dealers like Kevin Solecki, Lilliana and Alex at Music Magic, maybe even Greg V, Kimric in the Bay Area, and Musician’s Corner in RI that have been chosen (might be 1 more too).

Musically - Cory

Welcome Cory! I played in band in RI with your bass man Marty, small world!

 

[Giovanni]

Probably not, but a few software updates are likely to be released in the weeks following its availability.

that has to be expected ........it's not by any means the end of the world ..its par for the course not a problem at all up dates are normally easy and straight forward

 

[CPez]

1. From JerryPH: "Simple... squeezing every penny they can from a previous design, it's all about the dollar.
I'm curious who the early adopters are going to be. The Roland/EVO digital accordion world is small and they're going to want to do their best to promote it."

I think it's Cheap!! Every Roland that came out new was in the $7-8000 range, and that was 2009 and 2014! With inflation AND that this is All New Technology, it should be $12,000!!

2. I don't know who Ventura is, but he's a Smart Guy!

3. From Alan: A. "HOW IN BLAZES DID THEY KEEP THIS QUIET FOR FOUR YEARS?"

Even I, with ALLLL the people and contacts I have hahaha, couldn't figure it out until January! They did a heck of a job!

B. "Now comes the big question: Aside from Kraft Music, where in the USA can we go to try the Fisa Suprema?"

There are 3 Online Stores, and around 6 specifically chosen dealers, from one in my home state of RI to California.

C. "Roland FR-8x - $5700 | Korg Fisa. Suprema - $7999. Is it worth the difference? You decide."

It's Absolutely worth it. Trust me. This thing is Incredible. I've played it for 24 hours or so now (Sadly it came to me very late, and only got it in mid-August WHEN I was on a giant trip (Cotati and such)), and can't wait to put it on every time. And no, I'm not saying it cause I'm on the project. I'm telling you Truthfully.

4. "Acceleratmeter" -

This thing.... is SO SICK! It's like a Gyroscope! You're going to love it!

5. From Accordionna: "Carnegie Accordion in Pittsburgh, PA announced today that it will offer the Fisa Suprema with user programs from Cory Pesaturo."

Kind of False - Kevin will certainly have my sets, but All dealers will as well, as to have it at 1 dealer would be conflict of interest. The KORG people are Incredible (Trust me, it's a different world from Roland, as Everyone at KORG is SO Excited to create and sell this. Roland Begrudgingly did it outside of select people like Dennis Houlihan and Ron Lankford). I'm working on the sets as we speak!

6. From Accordion Eric: "The strange thing is, my fingers move just as fast while playing the 4x as they do the 8x, but the 8x plays all the notes without delay where the 4x does not. I would not be surprised if Roland will now offer a 'technique' upgrade and the bellows shake feature they provided for Cory Pesaturo for an additional fee to everyone who has a digital accordion. I certainly have not been able to mimic what Cory does on any of my Roland digital accordions no matter what settings I use. This tells me that there are two levels of programming. One for those that paid for their accordions, and one for those that advertise the accordion brand."

This is my favorite false rumor that there is haha! Hell No! They did NOT ever give me a specific setting (They wouldn't even let me PAINT or SKIN my Accordion or eat a cookie, let alone give me a "Cory Setting" haha) to do Double AND Triple Bellow Shakes. That's just Me! And I can tell you that they are both possible on the KORG. "If you gave Cory an empty "Heinz baked Bean tin to play he would make it sound musical "........just saying !!" You guys are too nice haha.

7. From JerryPH: Pesaturo does not use custom programming... ever. His reason for it is simple... he can pick up anyone else's 7X (he technically never played an 8X short of a few tests), and play whatever he plays.

Correct. 99% of the sounds I use 99% of the time, are Barely edited. Because of my early Roland days, I wanted to get good at just picking up NY 7X Anywhere, and being able to play a full 3 hour concert of music around the world at an A+ level. And it saved TONS of time. "But you could have just carried around your own USB and installed it every time..." Naaaa I'd lose it, I'd forget it everywhere, and I'd have to install it. No fun unless it was a BIG gig or TV gig; THEN yes I took my own sets on the USB. But it has always been fun to see people spend so SO much time on specific programing, when most of the time, regardless of gig, I just play all my various genres using what's on there.

8. The Weight -

The weight difference and feeling it being 2 pounds lighter is Huge! Every time I pick it up, I go OH MY GOD! It's a game changer. I could play this 3 hours standing up no problem; the 8X I last 20 minutes before my back hurts.

9. From JerryPH: He also has a couple videos on YouTube, but technically he's never owned one (though he was given an EVO and had it up for sale within a couple weeks of getting it).

Not to get into details which will wait for a Biography haha, but a couple of things here: I actually brought the VERY FIRST Bugari EVO to the United States (secretly) that I brought in from Finland, and played it for a full year (Not "couple of weeks"), enjoying it; I even used it on a Record for goodness sakes. So to say I "barely played it" and "never technically owned" it is WILDLY False. I simply hated the wooden keyboard as I couldn't even slide, and it was very slow, so I only called a few specific people that I knew wanted one, and it went to a dear friend out in the LA area. I got it at cost (Was Not Given one) and had that person pay the same so I never made money off my contact either, and that friend deserved a deal as he's a truly great player and a wonderful person.

"It was his way of protesting that they fired him. He had a few choice words about Roland and their business practices and as to why they fired him before letting go of Alicia."

It had nothing to do with Roland. That was Marco's baby, and Marco is a long time dear friend. On choice words for Roland, who doesn't? Everyone at KORG that was from Roland has a vendetta against Roland alla Mr. Lamborghini when he created Lamborghini when pissed at Enzo Ferrari. Hell, the late Very great Mr. Kakehashi HIMSELF spent the final years of his life trying to get back at and destroy Roland. On "fired", none of us Demonstrators (There were 5 at max in 2009) were employees, we were just hired guns. A Very long story short, it became obvious that telling Roland we need to get AB on board was a giant mistake, as AB was doing everything AB could on trying to get Roland to get rid of EM, which AB successfully did, JN, which AB successfully did, and then started on me. The very simple fact that rumors probably don't have, is that I never signed the 2011 Contract becasue there were 3 things I didn't like in the contract (including the same payments as 2008, before I won any World Championships), and we were still negotiating 3 months in, and doing gigs together like NAMM and the ATG Festival on a handshake with an unsigned contract. I eventually just said Heck There's Nothing positive about the future of this situation, especially as the late Great Dennis Houlihan, who I was Very close with until the day he died last week, had left as President of Roland US, and everyone that was still AT Roland (outside of SA), didn't care 1 BIT about the Accordion - and we split. Additionally, after I left, sure enough AB started on attempts to get rid of SA and began creating Crazy controversies to try to get Him fired, but luckily never did.

10. From JerryPH: BTW, his 7X is not painted, it's a printed vinyl sheet. In the automotive world it's called car wrapping.

Correct! As you probably know I'm a Huge Car Guy. So I thought, Hey, here's Another Record - I could be the FIRST to Skin / Wrap an Accordion. So I did.

11. From Alan: Cory also did three video demos of the AxE-Cordion when it came out. I’m willing to bet that if he ever owned one, he no longer does, since the instrument flopped badly in the USA.

If he ever Owned one? Fake News! I've had it for years, and it's sitting 10 feet behind me as I type this! Haha, Don't worry, I'm thinking of ways to use it. It's quite similar to the Revolutionary Accordion I designed in 2008 with a mad scientist friend, but we never could coordinate to build it.



OK, that's a TON of information for now. I'm off to NYC right now for some special KORG things you'll see soon.

Musically - Cory

 

[Thomas N]

Good info. Korg's one of the Big 3 along with Roland and Yamaha. And nothing new has really transpired for digital accordions in the past decade. I'd like to see nothing more than this product succeed.

 

[Ventura]

hey C

how you doin' ?

that was me at the Coupe Mondiale in Alexandria when we put
the white FR3 on you and i finally got a break to walk around !

that event put the FR7 on the map,
and by the next year at the AAA convention you were doing
the demo's, and i was playing the Dining room
which was as it should be

i didn't sign because of the fine print giving them the legal rights
to recordings made during events.. how could i do that when
some arrangements weren't mine to give ? plus i was so pissed
that the first "competition" in California was rigged

then you got interested and won in Australia, which
was fair and square, but i was unofficial by then, just doing
stuff for Rose and other friends once in awhile

i note your exploits over the years and you have done a fine job..
you even got together with the Polka kid, and Music with Mario
at speeds of, what, 100 MPH or so ?

yeah Dennis was one of the good ones.. you know he ran Jordan-Kitts
for awhile ? and thats where i met and worked with him

glad you are helping with the Korg..

wishing you continued success, health, races, etc.

ciao

Ventura

 

[SteveBox]

8. The Weight -

The weight is Huge!

Well, that statement has a double meaning. I am going to presume you mean the weight is a huge advantage, as it is much lighter than a full-size, top-of-the-line acoustic. That is fine if you like playing a large accordion.

Then there are some of us amateurs that really like the smaller and lighter accordions, and even 10 kg/23 lbs seems too heavy. I probably speak for many in saying that I hope Korg eventually introduces a 3/4 size model. For a digital accordion, it seems to me you don't need 120 bass buttons to play in all keys, if a convenient transpose feature is added to shift the range of the bass.

P.S. Welcome Cory!

 

[Alan Sharkis]

11. From Alan: Cory also did three video demos of the AxE-Cordion when it came out. I’m willing to bet that if he ever owned one, he no longer does, since the instrument flopped badly in the USA.

If he ever Owned one? Fake News! I've had it for years, and it's sitting 10 feet behind me as I type this! Haha, Don't worry, I'm thinking of ways to use it. It's quite similar to the Revolutionary Accordion I designed in 2008 with a mad scientist friend, but we never could coordinate to build it.

Well, mine had so many problems that Alex had to send it back to Italy. They sent him a new one for me, but at present I'm not using it. At age 84, however, the day may come when it will be the only instrument I can manage to play.

Meanwhile, I remember that a few years back you did make an appearance here -- something to do with a bad power supply. Any way, welcome!

 

[CPez]

Hi Steve - Yes, I mean the 2 pounds is actually a huge deal. You Truly notice it.

And Ventura - We went 180mph! Also, By Rose do you mean Rose at Roxy Music??

 

[murathan]

Take a 1000 dollar Korg keyboard parts. Shape in accordion. Sell for 8000. Good business !!

 

[oldbayan]

Take a 1000 dollar Korg keyboard parts. Shape in accordion. Sell for 8000. Good business !!

It's more complicated than that! Having key velocity on a keyboard is one thing, having a bellows pressure control system is something else. But yes, the price could probably be lower, except people would not believe a $4000 digital could be good when all other makers sell their for twice that price!

 

[Thomas N]

It's more complicated than that! Having key velocity on a keyboard is one thing, having a bellows pressure control system is something else. But yes, the price could probably be lower, except people would not believe a $4000 digital could be good when all other makers sell their for twice that price!

And don't forget about volume. I would imagine the Korg Nautilus outsells the Korg Fisa by a factor of 100.

Just finished watching most of the demo videos. As stated many times here, I'm not a fan of all of the huge orchestral demos and having the entire instrument sound like a circus. I have a Yamaha M8x for that. I know most of you like that a lot so the demos will be good for you.

Also, most demos are a bit non-US for me so far. Lots of ethnic music which makes sense since they're European.

But I think the demos of Luigi himself are the most evocative. Plays with a lot of emotion and you can tell he loves that instrument. Those go a long way for me.

This will be an interesting product to closely follow.

 

[debra]

It's more complicated than that! Having key velocity on a keyboard is one thing, having a bellows pressure control system is something else. But yes, the price could probably be lower, except people would not believe a $4000 digital could be good when all other makers sell their for twice that price!

Why would a $4000 digital accordion not be possible when good keyboards and digital pianos sell for quite a bit less?
As I explained earlier, good acoustic accordion that lasts for 50 years versus a good digital one that lasts for 10 year... it means that the digital one should sell for 20% of the price of the acoustic one. Since a good acoustic one (with convertor) goes for 20.000 (some a lot more, I know) the digital one should then be $4000. And I would gladly buy a really good digital accordion for $4000 to $5000...

 

[Giovanni]

Well, that statement has a double meaning. I am going to presume you mean the weight is a huge advantage, as it is much lighter than a full-size, top-of-the-line acoustic. That is fine if you like playing a large accordion.

Then there are some of us amateurs that really like the smaller and lighter accordions, and even 10 kg/23 lbs seems too heavy. I probably speak for many in saying that I hope Korg eventually introduces a 3/4 size model. For a digital accordion, it seems to me you don't need 120 bass buttons to play in all keys, if a convenient transpose feature is added to shift the range of the bass.

P.S. Welcome Cory!

Very interesting subject with regard to weight of instruments .........I think if you look at the age profile of our members (I have no official figures so I'm only assuming ) I would guess that most members are are in the 55 yrs .......to ..........at least ..... 76 yrs plus age bracket !!! no offence if you are alot younger !!! good luck to you ..........I remember I was once Young !! I'm still young in heart and mind but my Body seems to think otherwise .
Weight of instrument becomes important ...if you play /perform/ entertain standing up ..then weight could certainly be an issue .
Unless you are like our newest member that Young Whipper Snapper Cory xxx young fit and strong !!! and Brilliant ...he plays too fast to feel the weight ....of the instrument !!!.......I'm only joking !!
Most of the video's I have seen the player is seated ...then weight should not be a problem .

just the rambling thoughts of a 76yr old squeezer....

 

[Alan Sharkis]

Paul, i strongly suspect that the digital accordion industry doesn’t reason that way