Korg FISA SUPREMA

[debra]

...
regarding this "difference in brightness between push and pull"
i can tell you that is classic Bruti bullshit, ...

with roland it was the supernatural reed flatulence, notes actually
sounding flat as the "reed" first starts to move, and the exaggerated
key noise etc. that was actually amplified into the waveforms to
a level it could be "pointed out" in a demonstration

I'm so glad we are on the same page here.
We don't need any of that "flaw bullshit" in a digital accordion.
To me some of the great advantages of the digital accordion are 1) no volume difference between individual notes, caused by small differences in voicing, 2) no volume and timbre differences between the different reed blocks in cassotto (especially noticeable with accordions that have three reed blocks in cassotto), 3) no notes where some reeds start faster/slower than the other reeds (like H starting before L), 4) no excessive drop in frequency with low notes on push, 5) no loud noise on key press and key release due to aging of the felt, 6) no valve noise with either leather or plastic valves and 7) no reeds starting higher and then sagging down to the stable frequency, as I observed in older accordions of different brands and with reeds from different manufacturers (probably due to metal fatigue), 8) no rattling sound from the bass mechanism... I can keep going here...
What we need is great accordion sound without any of these flaws, just like I get great grand piano sound from my Yamaha digital piano without the hammer felt wearing out, the strings going out of tune, etc. If they focused their attention at Korg to creating that great accordion sound the Fisa Supreme would certainly sound still better than it does in the first demos (although it's already better than the Roland FR8x and FR4x).

 

[Dingo40]

How come we rarely hear about the Cavagnolo Digital Air accordions?
See here:

cavagnolo digital accordion price - Google Search

 

[kep]

How come we rarely hear about the Cavagnolo Digital Air accordions?
See here:

The answer is exactly in your link:

Cavagnolo Digit Air Millenium LB9 + All options​

Item No. : 170709

Buttons B. :

96

Boullard Price:
12'600.–
Catalog price:
14'750.–​

 

[Jibberin]

Just noticed The Accordion Shop in Sunningdale are going to stock the new accordion
£6749 - Piano
£6999 - Button

 

[JerryPH]

The point was, Cory could play any Roland/Evo instrument without limiting his technical skills. His famous "Ferrary-painted" FR-7X has some MIDI-activated lights but nothing modified in the keyboard/sound section.

He definitely can play anything with a PA keyboard! At the live oresentation I was at he must have played several acoustic accordions, but he always went back to that colorful 7X.

BTW, his 7X is not painted, it's a printed vinyl sheet. In the automotive world it's called car wrapping.

Man... see what I was saying? There is this explosion of info all over the internet and we are well within the first month of the announcement. Already many places that plan to stock them, many places that talk about it, lots of good videos and many KEY people are falling in to place. Cory, Uwe, Luigi and many more infuencers are on the bandwagon... a strong infrastructure is in place and growing! If this continues, I see a good future for this one!!

 

[Alan Sharkis]

How come we rarely hear about the Cavagnolo Digital Air accordions?
See here:

cavagnolo digital accordion price - Google Search

Cavagnolo had a brief presence in the USA some years ago. They were reportedly difficult to deal with.That’s all I know about their presence outside of Europe.

He definitely can play anything with a PA keyboard! At the live oresentation I was at he must have played several acoustic accordions, but he always went back to that colorful 7X.

BTW, his 7X is not painted, it's a printed vinyl sheet. In the automotive world it's called car wrapping.

Man... see what I was saying? There is this explosion of info all over the internet and we are well within the first month of the announcement. Already many places that plan to stock them, many places that talk about it, lots of good videos and many KEY people are falling in to place. Cory, Uwe, Luigi and many more infuencers are on the bandwagon... a strong infrastructure is in place and growing! If this continues, I see a good future for this one!!

Cory also did three video demos of the AxE-Cordion when it came out. I’m willing to bet that if he ever owned one, he no longer does, since the instrument flopped badly in the USA.

 

[JerryPH]

I am not saying that the success of anything depends solely on Cory, I am saying that the overall release process and business processes are being done right and there is acceptance and excitement in the community at a VERY early stage.

 

[Ventura]

I am saying that the overall release process and business processes are being done right

well the primary and most obvious difference in Korg VS Roland
marketing is simply that all Roland music store owners/dealers
had to sign an additional agreement to become V-Accordion dealers,
a Roland dealer could not even order one-off to satisfy a long-time local
customer.

clearly, being a Korg dealer historically and in good standing equals
access to all right off the bat, no red tape, no odious terms..

big difference, as you noted in the speed of "deployment" and stirring the
marketplace

now the questions will be speed of follow-through
(how many have been built, boxed, ready to ship and prep and deliver)
ability of the existing market to afford to buy one
robustness of the physical product to be trouble-free (critical) bug-free
(6 months on after having successfully proven it is worthy of desire)
ability of the barely-able-to-afford-one to make the long-term investment
mainstream use and visibility of the product

the last means when you see an Accordion front and center onstage..
featured with Shakira.. or how Springsteen's keyboard player sometimes
pulled one out, or our dear departed Songbird bringing little red onstage..

the impact.. just think for a moment of the amazing Video of "Kashmir"
they got together as old men to do, and how well they pulled it off,
and the two Korg keyboards onstage being such a critically important
part of the amazing sound..

that single Video launched 100 Korg ships in a heartbeat, i guarandamntee it

 

[kep]

guarandamntee

Priceless! I'll steal it with (C)

 

[oldbayan]

I don't know if you have watched this video, but the FISA has an "aging" parameter, to simulate brand new and older accordions sounds!

 

[Alan Sharkis]

well the primary and most obvious difference in Korg VS Roland
marketing is simply that all Roland music store owners/dealers
had to sign an additional agreement to become V-Accordion dealers,
a Roland dealer could not even order one-off to satisfy a long-time local
customer.

clearly, being a Korg dealer historically and in good standing equals
access to all right off the bat, no red tape, no odious terms..

big difference, as you noted in the speed of "deployment" and stirring the
marketplace

now the questions will be speed of follow-through
(how many have been built, boxed, ready to ship and prep and deliver)
ability of the existing market to afford to buy one
robustness of the physical product to be trouble-free (critical) bug-free
(6 months on after having successfully proven it is worthy of desire)
ability of the barely-able-to-afford-one to make the long-term investment
mainstream use and visibility of the product

the last means when you see an Accordion front and center onstage..
featured with Shakira.. or how Springsteen's keyboard player sometimes
pulled one out, or our dear departed Songbird bringing little red onstage..

the impact.. just think for a moment of the amazing Video of "Kashmir"
they got together as old men to do, and how well they pulled it off,
and the two Korg keyboards onstage being such a critically important
part of the amazing sound..

that single Video launched 100 Korg ships in a heartbeat, i guarandamntee it

I agree; they got it right. Whether I invest in one or not, I want to see a full manual asap. It will answer a lot of questions. That last point, however, about Shakira, Springsteen, etc., may be the toughest part of all.

 

[SteveBox]

the FISA has an "aging" parameter

WOW, so your new $8K accordion can sound just like an old, out of tune beater.

 

[oldbayan]

WOW, so your new $8K accordion can sound just like an old, out of tune beater.

Not sure whose idea this is in the product development team. Would any buyer want this?
I can imagine the programmer reading the specs to develop an algorithm to "detune" reeds individually ... What are the criteria to decide the number of years???

 

[oldbayan]

(...)
Another issue is the size of the the accordion. There must be a lot inside: 542 (W) x 408 (D) x 289 (H) mm for the PA version and 500 (W) x 381 (D) x 269 (H) mm for the button version. Let's hope there will be an "FR-4x equivalent" version with more reasonable dimensions soon, and that they won't forget to put chin switches on that one...

I never understood why digitals are as heavy as instruments that bear 200+ reed plates plus all the key mechanisms. Circuit boards aren't that heavy! I never opened a digital accordion, are there weights in there? Perhaps if they weighted 10-lb that would affect the dynamics of playing.

 

[JerryPH]

The answer is exactly in your link:

Cavagnolo Digit Air Millenium LB9 + All options​

Item No. : 170709

​

Buttons B. :

96

Boullard Price:

12'600.–

Catalog price:

14'750.–​

Well... that explains that!

 

[SteveBox]

I never understood why digitals are as heavy as instruments that bear 200+ reed plates plus all the key mechanisms. Circuit boards aren't that heavy!

I suspect light weight was not a design criterion, and if you want to offer a digital accordion that has all of the characteristics of an acoustic, including the imperfections, then maybe it should be almost as heavy. They may be concerned that serious accordionists, use to a heavy full-size acoustic, might equate light weight with poor quality. But I agree, I don't see why they need to be so heavy. They should not require heavy internal speakers, as the accordion has no need to be any louder than an acoustic (unless you want it to be the only PA system for a large venue - ear plugs anyone?) I suspect some of the weight comes from a thick, heavy duty, rugged plastic case. Cavagnolo has avoided that by using carbon fiber.

 

[John M]

An acoustic doesn't have a battery. The battery for my 8X is nearly 3 pounds.

 

[J. Eduardo]

Here's hoping they produce a smaller CBA model with the option to play it as a diatonic. They say the smaller versions will come next year.

 

[oldbayan]

Here's hoping they produce a smaller CBA model with the option to play it as a diatonic. They say the smaller versions will come next year.

I am lucky to have found a FR-18 in excellent shape, a few years ago. It's been my workhorse instrument since. In principle, any digital button accordion could be configured as a diatonic! It's all about software. It would be nice to have a 4-row diatonic with 72 or 80 basses.

 

[Thomas N]

I haven't listened to any of the videos yet but will do so later this morning. Interesting reading these comments here.

Off the top this would seem a hard sell for me personally. Not enough to move away from my FR-8X. I purchased it in 2015 and it's been solid for the past decade with literally hundreds of hours of playing it.

I think I use my FR-8X in a different manner than most, however. I use predominantly a jazz bassoon register I customized to my taste, a string bass with organ chord, and a Master Accordion register occasionally. The main draw for me is light weight, ability to use headphones for practice, and much less effort on bellow push and pull. For that, it's been wonderful.

I used all of the orchestral sounds and drums for probably the first year but felt they didn't add anything to my playing.

At $8K US that's around $8700 US with taxes and shipping. Even if the selling price is below the MAP and the total is $8000 US that's really steep for a digital accordion.

I bought my Yamaha Montage M8x last January and it is their State of the Art flagship workstation. It is just amazing. I think it was $5K shipped to my door and I play it daily and love it. It feels like a piano and I'll never begin to approach using 10% of the things you can do with it.

As a humorous aside, I agree with the comments about the "aging" parameter and all the BS additions to make it sound like an old acoustic accordion. The M8x has hundreds of sounds with intentional pops and clicks to simulate vinyl records or old time pianos. You can eliminate these "features" and with 4000 sounds they get lost in the mix, but there' a subset of users out there that really enjoys this. I'm not sure why.

I take it with a grain of salt whoever sponsors whatever accordion. I recall Frank Marocco and Petosa and they still use his "the best accordion I have ever played" on their website. Then he was all Victoria. And he was FR-8X for a short bit. But on a lot of his albums he always played his Giuletti. Dick Contino was Petosa, and Cordovox back in the day. Art Van Damme was Excelsior. But I think they all follow the money and who knows what they truly think. Since they are the top of the top my personal feeling is it doesn't matter what they play because they are so talented. The minions (rest of us) hear them play that particular instrument and think, hey, that sounds great. I should get one too. It's neither here nor there. That's why I tend to value YouTube reviews of peasants like myself playing an instrument and providing their thoughts.

And I'm not a hypocrite. If Korg dropped a Fisa off on my doorstep and told me it's free for a sponsorship, this would be my 100th post in this forum on how incredible the instrument is!