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So, you want/got a smaller, lighter accordion?

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Soulsaver,have we included the Weltmeister Kristall yet ? Still compact and light, 3 voice with full-size keys but only 5 bass rows, no dims.

30/60 3 voice/5 registers. 4 banks of bass reeds/no bass registers. Measures 372 x 182 Catalogue weight 6.9kg. Mine weighs 7.1kg with straps. The 30 treble keys are full width 20mm.

From the very good Thomann about £925, or from Vogtton Musikhaus about £1010. Delivery extra of course but not expensive.

As Vogtton are pretty much part of Weltmeister they can often arrange factory re-adjustment of (tremolo) tuning prior to delivery (at extra cost, takes about 1 week) or sometimes custom finish or colour. They are extremely helpful and nice to deal with (in English). However they take payment only by direct bank transfer, no cards (maybe cash on delivery in Germany).
 
artidots said:
Soulsaver,have we included the Weltmeister Kristall yet ? Still compact and light, 3 voice with full-size keys but only 5 bass rows, no dims.

30/60 3 voice/5 registers. 4 banks of bass reeds/no bass registers. Measures 372 x 182 Catalogue weight 6.9kg. Mine weighs 7.1kg with straps. The 30 treble keys are full width 20mm.

From the very good Thomann about £925, or from Vogtton Musikhaus about £1010. Delivery extra of course but not expensive.

As Vogtton are pretty much part of Weltmeister they can often arrange factory re-adjustment of (tremolo) tuning prior to delivery (at extra cost, takes about 1 week) or sometimes custom finish or colour. They are extremely helpful and nice to deal with (in English). However they take payment only by direct bank transfer, no cards (maybe cash on delivery in Germany).
We have now, thanks Arti - good post.
Summary: Weltmeister Kristall 30/60 3/4 5/0 7.1kgs inc strap. Note Thomann list this as 6.7kgs assume ex straps?
 
For your list Soulsaver, if it is still going:

Actual weight of new Allodi/Fantini SP30/T - 30 key/3 voice/72 bass PA is actually 7.5 kgs, incl fairly posh straps and supplied backpad. (doesn't feel that heavy though)

also

Weltmeister Romance 602 - 60 key/5 row/2 voice/72 bass CBA - C weighs 6.9 kgs incl straps. (belongs to my partner, Marjorie)

Feels right to have fully kitted out weights that have been personally checked by owners eh.

Thanks and Regards
 
I've edited the first post to include the Fantini data, much appreciated. Unless you feel strongly, I'll leave the CBA info where it is, Artidots if that's ok? I know it doesn't say PA in the title but generally that's generally where people are migrating from as they get older infirmer lazier or stroller..er, er. ;)
 
Soulsaver said:
Ive edited the first post to include the Fantini data, much appreciated. Unless you feel strongly, Ill leave the CBA info where it is, Artidots if thats ok? I know it doesnt say PA in the title but generally thats generally where people are migrating from as they get older infirmer lazier or stroller..er, er. ;)


No probs, understood, thanks.
 
People discussing weights in another thread- so bumped this .. :)
 
Soulsaver said:
Ive edited the first post to include the Fantini data, much appreciated. Unless you feel strongly, Ill leave the CBA info where it is, Artidots if thats ok? I know it doesnt say PA in the title but generally thats generally where people are migrating from as they get older infirmer lazier or stroller..er, er. ;)

Thats interesting, apparently CBA players are more robust, immune to the ravages of old age? Cool!
 
barkis said:
But what does sistema francese (french system) refer to? That it is the C-system or that the bass is of the french type that leaves out the 7-chords? The bass only has 5 rows after all.

http://www.giustozzi.it/ws/index.php?route=product/product&path=65&product_id=97

I guessed the latter, but after looking around for confirmation Im not so sure. Possible meanings:
  • C griff, i.e. as opposed to B.
  • 3/3 stradella bass (not really, here, but see below.)
  • C chromatic converter bass
  • a slightly more compact button spacing, with noticeably smaller buttons.
  • reeds arranged in 3 banks for a deeper chamber and more open grill ... (OK, heres the Italian, see what you think: Il sistema francese è la fisarmonica cromatica in cui le soniere sono disposte su 3 file quindi cassa più profonda e compatta, mascherina cromata molto aperta il tutto a vantaggio di un suono migliore.

The 3/3 system manages to dispense with one of the chord rows by making the other serve for either. The last chord row is a dominant 7 but without the root - so its also a diminished for an adjacent row. Thats also pretty sensible for a 5 row 60 bass, but I guess its not standard. Maybe sistema francese means only that, here.

I have no clue, really.

Il sistema che in Italia viene chiamato sistema francese è noto in Francia, con giusta ragione, come sistema italiano.[/quote]
It might refer to the registers being levers on the back of the keyboard.
 
The term "sistema francese" refers solely to the treble side of the instrument. It indicates a standard C system CBA, and nothing else. I used to think it referred to the couplers being situated on the back of the treble keyboard, but the following info has proved me wrong on that score.

The Italian sentence referred to in the last post translates as "The system,which in Italy is called the French system is known in France, with good reason, as the Italian system". This is a bit confusing, but in France they refer to the C system CBA keyboard as "italien" and the B system as "belge". Until now I wasn't aware that the Italians called the C system "sistema francese", and was of the belief that it referred only to the coupler arrangement. Mind you they call the B system "sistema russo", so I suppose I should have worked it out before now.

I put a whole load of previous posts making reference to the rear mounted treble couplers as being the definition of "sistema francese", and got it all wrong (again).

The 60 bass spec for French instruments comprises a standard stradella arrangement, and is essentially a standard 72 bass without the dim7 row. Working from the bellows outwards you have two counterbass rows, then major, minor, and 7th chords.

The instrument shown has the standard bass buttons, whereas the French spec instruments usually have mushroom headed buttons arranged in stepped rows.

A little caveat if you're thinking of buying. The trend these days is for most of these small lightweight instruments to be manufactured in a country where labour costs are lower. The parts may be Italian, but they won't necessarily be top notch.

Some manufacturers clearly indicate whether they have outsourced the manufacture of any particular model, but I see that Cavagnolo are advertising their "Top 80" model without any such reference. Some sellers declare that they are made in Asia and quality checked at Cavagnolo's French factory, but Cavagnolo's web listing makes no reference to that fact. In any case it doesn't appear to be much of an instrument for a whopping 2197 Euro.

I cannot say whether Giustozzi do the same, but it might be worth enquiring.

I recently bought a Hohner Nova 80 Fun lite which I knew was made in China, but I bought it on the strength of the Hohner name badge. It does everything it should, but the build quality isn't up to much.
 
Soulsaver said:
Ive edited the first post to include the Fantini data, much appreciated. Unless you feel strongly, Ill leave the CBA info where it is, Artidots if thats ok? I know it doesnt say PA in the title but generally thats generally where people are migrating from as they get older infirmer lazier or stroller..er, er. ;)

Thats interesting, apparently CBA players are more robust, immune to the ravages of old age? Cool![/quote]
Maybe true .. but I think its because for the equivalent of a 41/120 the button boxes are already more compact (& lighter?) - heard it said before in the arguments to start/move to buttons from PA.
 
Maybe more compact, but not lighter. As usual, it's mostly about the number of reeds on the right side, and the CBA will tend to have more reeds. I mean, of course, if you can find a strictly equivalent 41/120, we could guess it might be a gram or two lighter, but the actually available instruments will have more notes. Beltuna Prestige M for example - 120 M piano is 41 notes 11.7 kg, K M button is 46 notes 11.9 kg. Both have 4 voices on the right, which seems to be the main predictor of weight.
 
Posted the following Hohner Chart (with weights, specs & prices) from 1955. Included in the OP, too.
 

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donn said:
Hm, they all look rather light to me.
Yeah? The Ariettas listed weights on the first post dont seem light against the ones on the Hohner list. And the several Hohner models I own arent far out. They may be weights without straps?
 
My perspective is limited to one accordion, my Fratelli Crosio, which by my reckoning could be 32lbs if I remember right. LMMM, don't recall how many - maybe 46? I don't think much of that is straps.
 
donn said:
My perspective is limited to one accordion, my Fratelli Crosio, which by my reckoning could be 32lbs if I remember right. LMMM, dont recall how many - maybe 46? I dont think much of that is straps.
Well its good we have some hard and fast data to show on those examples the list looks pretty accurate.
Admittedly this is 1955, the age before the trade descriptions act... and Id agree the biggies (Morinos)on here maybe a couple of lbs light against other modern sources.
Gola 414 weighs 11.8 kgs on the site I found it on.. so thats a couple of lbs light on the list, too, accepting that its unlikely today that a site would overstate the weight..
 
Probably best to add that if you it is really critical for you - some on here have issues with 0.5 kg - then best to ask & research before you buy. But bear in mind that'll be tricky 2nd hand, as from me you'd get 'N lbs on my bathroom scales..' which says nowt for accuracy.
 
I carried this Bugari “Blue 72” on my back all over Kenya this summer. It was a big hit, and I’m really glad I had something to play.
 

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Kenya, as in Africa? Amazing, I would be thinking that especially in the summer, that the reed wax was in jeopardy... until I looked up the average summer temps which are between 20C-28C... that is very temperate. Did you have any dust issues with the accordion, carrying it around in the open in those conditions?
 
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