stickista
Well-known member
Doesn’t that make some kinds of repairs difficult-to-impossible? (At least without major surgery?)
Last edited:
-
-
We're having a little contest, running until the end of March. Please feel free to enter - see the thread in the "I Did That" section of the forum. Don't be shy, have a go!
Tiered vs flat CBA
- Thread starter stickista
- Start date
Yep, correct on the French system... but the 3 and b7 would still give me half a dim chord albeit on the row below...ie F7 doubles as Cdim...
Just about reducing the blare....as CJS system seems to have done...but I don't want to buy a whole new box and trading with Europe has become near impossible since Brexit...
stickista
Well-known member
Yeah, but you can just drive to Europe and carry it back (and have a nice holiday at the same time.Yep, correct on the French system... but the 3 and b7 would still give me half a dim chord albeit on the row below...ie F7 doubles as Cdim...
Just about reducing the blare....as CJS system seems to have done...but I don't want to buy a whole new box and trading with Europe has become near impossible since Brexit...
)
That's right, and that's why it's such a terrible idea. A few weeks ago a friend of mine fell over backwards while playing because his piano stool broke. I don't know the details precisely but several buttons (or the mechanism below) were bent out of shape and interfered with each other, on his Pigini Sirius bayan. Luckily with this accordion a panel under the buttons provides some access to the mechanism and I could repair the keyboard without the need to remove the buttons (in order to be able to remove the panel just under than buttons that is not removable because of the buttons. So complete disaster was narrowly avoided, but I came close to having to remove all the (glued-on) buttons, and later glue them back on as well.
What is relevant for the original topic though is that with a flat keyboard that top panel can be removed without removing the buttons because the holes for the buttons are button-size and not just button-stem size.
petch
Well-known member
Put the accordion upright (in the playing position). Bring a very strong magnet (neodymium) to a button. If there is any attraction then there is a steel screw inside and the buttons are screwed in. (If there is no attraction then the buttons are glued on.)
Bloviator
Member
You are a source of such incredible knowledge here.
I love reading it.
stickista
Well-known member
I’ve been thinking about how I’m going to have to deal with stepped vs flat on my upcoming CBA and think that in general, for my 4 fingers, I’ll mainly have to see to it that I maintain a slight curve to avoid hitting adjacent buttons… less of a flat fingered approach. Shouldn't be too big of a deal, and frankly more in line with proper piano technique.
As for my thumb, I’ll have to see how much I have to twist my wrist to use thumb on the top row, and may try to eliminate that as much as possible. I inventoried my current repertoire and I rarely use thumb on row top row.
As for 2nd row, I just ran the permutations, and (a least for jazz) every note on the first row that I accidentally trigger when playing a note on row 2 is going to be a maj 2nd above, at least on the low half of the keyboard. While that may give me the occasional juicy #4 or b5, its almost always going to give me a consonant note that may just develop into my own sound. Higher notes where the angle instead triggers a half step below will be another matter… there lie some pretty ugly dissonances.
Its going to be a long 6 months waiting for it to arrive.
As for my thumb, I’ll have to see how much I have to twist my wrist to use thumb on the top row, and may try to eliminate that as much as possible. I inventoried my current repertoire and I rarely use thumb on row top row.
As for 2nd row, I just ran the permutations, and (a least for jazz) every note on the first row that I accidentally trigger when playing a note on row 2 is going to be a maj 2nd above, at least on the low half of the keyboard. While that may give me the occasional juicy #4 or b5, its almost always going to give me a consonant note that may just develop into my own sound. Higher notes where the angle instead triggers a half step below will be another matter… there lie some pretty ugly dissonances.
Its going to be a long 6 months waiting for it to arrive.
Last edited:
What makes the choice perhaps easier is that the vast majority of CBA players use a stepped keyboard. So should you ever wish to sell your accordion (decades from now) it will be easier with a stepped keyboard than with a flat keyboard.
stickista
Well-known member
I just communicated with the maker, and it turns out that the flat keyboard is not set at 90 degrees to the body, but at 114 degrees, so it shouldn't take any wrist contortions to use my thumb anywhere. And I think the idea of being able to do circular glissandi sounds interesting.
That is (approx.) correct. In my experience the flat keyboard averages out to be at about the same angle as a stepped keyboard. It just has all the button tops on the same plane. If you could angle the buttons back to 90 degrees you would end up with a stepped keyboard. (I cannot do that easily on my Morino Artiste because the buttons are glued but I have been meaning to angle them for a long time...
stickista
Well-known member
How would you angle the buttons? Unscrew a bit then bend them at the point where the screw meets the button by approx 14 degrees? That would presume fairly long screws.
(I think I’ll play it as designed before doing anything that radical.
)edit: actually I don’t see how that would work. If you bend the button to be at an angle to the screw, pushing down would actually be pushing the screws sideways, not down.
Last edited:
Sadly it cannot be done this way, at least on my accordion. The "unscrew a bit" is no option because the buttons are glued on, not screwed.How would you angle the buttons? Unscrew a bit then bend them at the point where the screw meets the button by approx 14 degrees? That would presume fairly long screws.
(I think I’ll play it as designed before doing anything that radical.
edit: actually I don’t see how that would work. If you bend the button to be at an angle to the screw, pushing down would actually be pushing the screws sideways, not down.
What needs to be done is 1) buy all new buttons, screw-in type, 2) print new "caps" that go over the old stems, have angled top edge and a tiny also angled hole for the screw, and that raise the height of the buttons by 3mm (so the buttons will not hit the plate underneath when pressed) and then 3) glue the tops on, ensuring their top is pointing the right way and finally 4) screw the buttons in (after the glue has dried completely).
It is a rather involved process, but I think it's possible.
Note that 1) caps over the old stems are possible because the holes in the plate are large enough as a whole button can go through them and 2) you don't need the normal felt rings under the buttons because the flat keyboard has felt dampers under the keyboard just like with a piano keyboard.
An even fanciers option would be to also buy a new stepped plate to go under the buttons (to replace the flat plate that's already there). But when you buy such a stepped plate it comes without holes so you have to then drill about 100 holes for the stems to go through...
stickista
Well-known member
That sounds like a LOT of work to modify something you said really wasn’t that much of a problem for you.
Indeed! Playing a flat keyboard is not really harder than playing a stepped one. The thing that bothers me most is that A, C#, G# are marked (textured) instead of the usual C and F. It's a Hohner thing... they did that on all button accordions.That sounds like a LOT of work to modify something you said really wasn’t that much of a problem for you.
stickista
Well-known member
I guess I can see A, C#, G#… I use C, D, G because it similarly puts every unmarked note adjacent to a marked button. Odd to mark C# and G# tho’. Not exactly common notes.
Your Hohner layout creates similarly sized tactile triangles as mine.
I really think either are better than just C,F
It does make the case for screw-on buttons tho’.
I wonder how C,F became standard.
Last edited:
Similar threads
