Korg FISA SUPREMA

[SteveBox]

I don't know what the price of the smaller "C" model will be when it's introduced, but it will, of necessity, lack some of the features of the current model.

The specs and feature differences between full size and C "compact" version is already in the downloadable manual. I put "compact" in quotes because in my opinion, it will not really be a compact accordion, but only slightly downsized, like the difference between the FR-8x and FR-4x. For the PA versions, there is a difference in the number of keys, but both CBA versions have the exact same number of buttons. So why not just one CBA model?

Will Korg ever come out with a truly compact "aero digital instrument", akin to the FR-1x?

 

[Alan Sharkis]

The Korg is nice, but its not $10,000+ CDN nicer than an 8X. Ultimately, for me the deal breaker was no editor. Currently not going to even consider the Fisa... unless I won the lottery, then it would just be because I was curious, not because ai really, really wanted one.

Ditto!

 

[Alan Sharkis]

The specs and feature differences between full size and C "compact" version is already in the downloadable manual. I put "compact" in quotes because in my opinion, it will not really be a compact accordion, but only slightly downsized, like the difference between the FR-8x and FR-4x. For the PA versions, there is a difference in the number of keys, but both CBA versions have the exact same number of buttons. So why not just one CBA model?

Will Korg ever come out with a truly compact "aero digital instrument", akin to the FR-1x?

Just my opinion, but comparing Korgs to Rolands is not valid. It’s almost like compareing Cavagnolo digitals to the (still not released and mysterious) ‘entry level’ Proxima.

 

[Thomas N]

Just my opinion, but comparing Korgs to Rolands is not valid. It’s almost like compareing Cavagnolo digitals to the (still not released and mysterious) ‘entry level’ Proxima.

Oh I think it's an extremely valid comparison.

Both the Korg and Roland are from one of the Big Three in musical instrument manufacturers. They're not one-offs from Proxima or Cavagnolo.

Both were designed by the same teams. Same physical appearance. Heck, even the screen is the same. This is one point that mystifies me a bit. You can buy a SteamDeck with a 1200x800 OLED touchscreen for $500 (I know because I have one). Yet the Korg uses that same low-res small screen that the FR-8X has. Even the graphics for Italy, or France, appear to be the same low-resolution pixelated images. In 10 years advancements haven't been made there? Maybe not, since it's a relatively small screen and resolution is probably low on their priority list.

I've thought long and hard about making the switch, just to modernize. I could get maybe $3500 to $4000 for my FR-8X. So we're still talking about another $4K US to purchase the Fisa Supreme. I can't see $4K in additional value there for me personally. If it was $1000 difference it would be a no-brainer and I'd already have ordered one.

I don't even know what the FR-8X sells for new anymore. Maybe $6K? $5K? If I didn't have an FR-8X it would be a difficult choice between the two and I'd probably go with the Korg for a couple grand more just for the warranty, lighter weight, and new features.

I was really hoping the Korg would have some arranger-type features on the left hand side but from everything I've seen it's still the same "assign a drum tone to a bass button" type of situation.

I feel there are way more similarities between the FR-8X and the Fisa than differences at this very early point in their comparisons.

I'm glad this thread and this forum exists and can't wait for input from more people that use this instrument.

 

[Thomas N]

The Korg is nice, but its not $10,000+ CDN nicer than an 8X. Ultimately, for me the deal breaker was no editor. Currently not going to even consider the Fisa... unless I won the lottery, then it would just be because I was curious, not because ai really, really wanted one.

This is another huge point Jerry and one I agree with completely. As we know, the editor for the FR-8X came out years after we had our accordion. It was a game-changer. It's one of the reasons those sound sets were selling like hotcakes. Programming was a nightmare and eyestrain.

I don't think most users connect up the editor. It's very simple. I noticed on a Dale Mathis video he mentioned that you get "balanced sets" with his performances that are better than out of the box. I think if most users understood that you can connect to the editor and literally click on a slider to change the balance to anything that suits your playing perfectly they wouldn't put so much weight behind those statements. I mean you can connect a USB cable to your FR-8X, double click the editor, go into any User Program and rebalance, change the sounds, bellows emphasis, and sound combinations, click Write Save and be done with the whole thing in 2 minutes. Another click and you've backed it all up as well.

I'm certain an editor is coming for the Korg, and I sure hope I'm wrong in thinking it's going to look A LOT like the FR-8X editor!

 

[Alan Sharkis]

Oh I think it's an extremely valid comparison.

Both the Korg and Roland are from one of the Big Three in musical instrument manufacturers. They're not one-offs from Proxima or Cavagnolo.

Both were designed by the same teams. Same physical appearance. Heck, even the screen is the same. This is one point that mystifies me a bit. You can buy a SteamDeck with a 1200x800 OLED touchscreen for $500 (I know because I have one). Yet the Korg uses that same low-res small screen that the FR-8X has. Even the graphics for Italy, or France, appear to be the same low-resolution pixelated images. In 10 years advancements haven't been made there? Maybe not, since it's a relatively small screen and resolution is probably low on their priority list.

I've thought long and hard about making the switch, just to modernize. I could get maybe $3500 to $4000 for my FR-8X. So we're still talking about another $4K US to purchase the Fisa Supreme. I can't see $4K in additional value there for me personally. If it was $1000 difference it would be a no-brainer and I'd already have ordered one.

I don't even know what the FR-8X sells for new anymore. Maybe $6K? $5K? If I didn't have an FR-8X it would be a difficult choice between the two and I'd probably go with the Korg for a couple grand more just for the warranty, lighter weight, and new features.

I was really hoping the Korg would have some arranger-type features on the left hand side but from everything I've seen it's still the same "assign a drum tone to a bass button" type of situation.

I feel there are way more similarities between the FR-8X and the Fisa than differences at this very early point in their comparisons.

I'm glad this thread and this forum exists and can't wait for input from more people that use this instrument.

Actually, the Korg Fisa Suprema was developed by Dexibell, and all of the orchestral sounds are proprietary soundfonts from Dexibell. The accordion, and IIRC the organ sounds, are modeled. The sound engine is Dexibell.

The Fisa Suprema is bi-amped, unlike the Rolands, but the ‘C’ midel is not. There are other technical differences, too numerous to list here.

So, why the Korg name? I know that Dexibell is not a commonly known name outside of Europe ( it’s an Italian company) and Korg is known worldwide. Korg certainly did contribute some to the development of the Fisa Suprema, and will play a very large role in promoting it.

 

[Alan Sharkis]

This is another huge point Jerry and one I agree with completely. As we know, the editor for the FR-8X came out years after we had our accordion. It was a game-changer. It's one of the reasons those sound sets were selling like hotcakes. Programming was a nightmare and eyestrain.

I don't think most users connect up the editor. It's very simple. I noticed on a Dale Mathis video he mentioned that you get "balanced sets" with his performances that are better than out of the box. I think if most users understood that you can connect to the editor and literally click on a slider to change the balance to anything that suits your playing perfectly they wouldn't put so much weight behind those statements. I mean you can connect a USB cable to your FR-8X, double click the editor, go into any User Program and rebalance, change the sounds, bellows emphasis, and sound combinations, click Write Save and be done with the whole thing in 2 minutes. Another click and you've backed it all up as well.

I'm certain an editor is coming for the Korg, and I sure hope I'm wrong in thinking it's going to look A LOT like the FR-8X editor!

I’d like to think that an editor for the Fisa Suprema is in the works. I own a Roland FR-4x, and the editor is essential for that model, due to the nature of its menu system and its display screen. It’s just a little bit easier to edit using the display screen of the 8x, and I’m aware of the time gap between the release of the FR-8x and the release of the official Roland editor for it. The 4x editor was released with the 4x or shortly thereafter. There is also an official Roland editor that works with the 1x, the 3x, and the 7x, and that one also seems to be an afterthought on Roland’s part.

 

[JerryPH]

Actually, the Korg Fisa Suprema was developed by Dexibell

So was the 8X. Luigi Bruni's (sp?) name is on the list of important contributors of the roland 3-4- and 8X.
Don't think so? Ask Ventura.

 

[Thomas N]

So was the 8X. Luigi Bruni's (sp?) name is on the list of important contributors of the roland 3-4- and 8X.
Don't think so? Ask Ventura.

You're correct. It's literally in the first page or two of this thread.

If somebody thinks these are two completely unrelated products I don't know what to say. Dexibell was all over the Rolands and has their name on the Korg product itself.

Look at the screen! It's the same screen. Same icons. Either Dexibell had 7000 of these still in the warehouse inventory and said "let's roll with these" or they knew it was perfectly acceptable on the FR-8X and continued with it.

Of course a lot resides in the programming, the memory, the advancement of sound engines, any Korg cross-over sounds, etc. I know the bellows action may be optimized, and I've read Korg's website blurbs on the organs.

Edit: Screen is the same - Roland DISPLAY: Color LCD 2.4”, 320 x 240 dots
Korg DISPLAY Color LCD 2.4”, 320 x 240 dots

From Korg's Website on the new Fisa - kind of surprised they actually used this picture:

 

[dak]

If somebody thinks these are two completely unrelated products I don't know what to say. Dexibell was all over the Rolands and has their name on the Korg product itself.

Look at the screen! It's the same screen. Same icons. Either Dexibell had 7000 of these still in the warehouse inventory and said "let's roll with these" or they knew it was perfectly acceptable on the FR-8X and continued with it.

Well, Bosch has its hands all over lots of car models that have no problem considering themselves unrelated product lines.

 

[Alan Sharkis]

So was the 8X. Luigi Bruni's (sp?) name is on the list of important contributors of the roland 3-4- and 8X.
Don't think so? Ask Ventura.

Yes, I should have concentrated on the people as well as the companies. Thanks for pointing that out.

I recall Bruti in a Roland commercial demonstrating a Roland PA and then saying that he cannot play CBA, so he introduced Ludovic Beier who demonstrated the CBA model.

 

[Ventura]

research the patents underlying the Roland V-Accordion
if curious about Bruti's involvement, and articles about the
design and management team at ELKA in their final years

on Roland's side, research SIEL and the establishment of a
Roland owned facility in Europe

then look at the R&D people and facility at their Italian location
for the origins of the Hammond Organ clone and the E-Series
arranger/performance series keyboards

from their you can follow the core programming eventually
used for the essential framework of the V-Accordion and all
the Roland Arrangers produced since

 

[Thomas N]

Well, Bosch has its hands all over lots of car models that have no problem considering themselves unrelated product lines.

True, just like Brembo brakes, Takata airbags, or in the high-tech large Service Provider routers I've sold for 30 years in my career - lower-end chipsets from companies like Broadband for smaller edge routers. The only way to differentiate and compare vendors is to see what the companies have done with the programming and features of those common chipsets. Of course on our top large routers we have customized in-house ASICs that are 18 months ahead of the competition and that is the driving force making our product #1 in the industry.

I know little about the music industry, and a lot about routers (LOL), and perhaps it doesn't translate well. I think I carry that mindset into analysis of new products like this and always approach them with trying to understand what the company did to make this a revolutionary, or evolutionary product compared to its predecessor.

After 30 years of sales meetings being bombarded with detailed statistics about my competitor's products and trying to discern if it's vaporware, real, or insignificant in the real world for 99% of my customers, I'm a little jaded when told that something is leaps and bounds better when empirical evidence suggests otherwise.

But like I've said throughout this thread, the jury is still out. I'm eager to learn.

EDIT: As an example, I researched the 2.4" screens. 320x240 is about the best you're gonna get. There are OLED models available with double the resolution and designed for outdoor usage (main application appears to be outdoor camera displays) and they run around $30 with a non-bulk purchase. But I don't think it would bring much value to use that screen for an accordion display. You can get what you want from the current screen. Now if you bump it up to a 3" screen or larger the world opens up - but that probably had design limitations or wasn't deemed important enough with 15,000 other considerations into a digital accordion.

 

[Ventura]

lower-end chipsets from companies

so this is the first essential difference.. the core chipset in
basically ALL high end Rolands for several decades is something
they developed in house, no-one else can have it in their product..

especially KORG (lol)

this sub-assembly has literally EVERYTHING Roland has ever
crafted for sound, and every new product is simply what the
specific programming allows to be accessed in the creation
of the unique (end) product

but if you COULD hack in, you would have everything in your
FR8 from a Rodgers Cathedral organ to the original Juno waveforms

EDIT: As an example, I researched the 2.4" screens.

did your research reveal anything available that is the same electrical specs/
pin-out as in the FR7x ? you could make a lot of people happy

 

[Thomas N]

so this is the first essential difference.. the core chipset in
basically ALL high end Rolands for several decades is something
they developed in house, no-one else can have it in their product..

especially KORG (lol)

this sub-assembly has literally EVERYTHING Roland has ever
crafted for sound, and every new product is simply what the
specific programming allows to be accessed in the creation
of the unique (end) product

but if you COULD hack in, you would have everything in your
FR8 from a Rodgers Cathedral organ to the original Juno waveforms

did your research reveal anything available that is the same electrical specs/
pin-out as in the FR7x ? you could make a lot of people happy

I just gave it a cursory 5 minutes Ventura. Based upon screen size, LCD technology, and resolution. I do understand that there are many other factors. I just wanted to understand why the screen hasn't changed in 10 years with all of the advancements in display technology. It seems like the one thing that would be such a noticeable upgrade on a brand-new product - especially one where the Roland display was the bane of almost every user, myself included! There's not much space there and there's really no other placement for a screen with the unique angles of the accordion physical shape. Maybe on the front grill, with a 12" physical display with touch capability. But I'd trust the tried and true physical switches we've had for years over that - and that's coming from a guy that's had a Tesla for 12 years now.

 

[Airy]

A german fellow seems to prefere the bellows sensitivity of the Korg compared to Roland and Bugari:

Hits 4 Accordion - The Smooth Fading Bellows Of The Korg Fisa Suprema


The Korg's bellows even triggers sound with gravitational force alone like most accousic accordions do:

Hits 4 Accordion - The Smooth-Running Bellows Of The Korg Fisa Suprema

 

[dak]

A german fellow seems to prefere the bellows sensitivity of the Korg compared to Roland and Bugari:

Hits 4 Accordion - The Smooth Fading Bellows Of The Korg Fisa Suprema


The Korg's bellows even triggers sound with gravitational force alone like most accousic accordions do:

Hits 4 Accordion - The Smooth-Running Bellows Of The Korg Fisa Suprema

Well, I know this fellow and I wonder whether he actually owns that instrument or is just as lazy as I am with my keyboard layouts (I always use US layout but it looks like whatever was most affordable, I think it might be Swiss or Belgian or Danish on the keys right now). Because that looks C-systemish, and he most definitely is a B system player.

 

[KeysFla]

My FR4x has been running well. But if I went to another digital, will go with one the same size. I always have a Korg arranger at my side. No plans to be doing 3 hour shows solo without arranger in the near future. I may at times do solos at a table for birthday’s/anniversary. Which the FR4x serves the purpose.
Strange though, my FR1x, I can’t get comfortable with it sitting down. Maybe too small? Need the bulk of the FR4x.
Still watching, as more are doing demos on FISA.

 

[JerryPH]

A german fellow seems to prefere the bellows sensitivity of the Korg compared to Roland and Bugari:

Anyone who doesn't know Uwe Steger has not been paying much attention in the digital accordion world... lol
I like this man... AWESOME accordionist and promoter of the digital accordion for many years now.

Hits 4 Accordion

Hits for Accordion

www.youtube.com

 

[Alan Sharkis]

Anyone who doesn't know Uwe Steger has not been paying much attention in the digital accordion world... lol
I like this man... AWESOME accordionist and promoter of the digital accordion for many years now.

Hits 4 Accordion

Hits for Accordion

www.youtube.com

Uwe Steger is not only a great accordionist, but a very creative videographer with a sense of humor that’s quirky and endearing at the same time.