Korg FISA SUPREMA

[debra]

Interesting. My (4-reed) CBA Morino has 62 notes and its case was not wide enough for a 96-bass (37 treble keys) PA. So I am surprised that the Artiste XS should be significantly wider (I think it has somewhat fewer notes). Now the depth of those CBAs of course is a different matter: the corresponding height of the case is way more than what would be needed for that 37-key PA.

I could be mistaken but I think your Morino has 6 reed blocks, to fit 62 notes 4 voice on blocks with 20 or 21 notes. My Artiste X S has just 5 reed blocks, holding 28 notes each, for 56 notes in 5 voices.

 

[dak]

I could be mistaken but I think your Morino has 6 reed blocks, to fit 62 notes 4 voice on blocks with 20 or 21 notes.

Yes.

My Artiste X S has just 5 reed blocks, holding 28 notes each, for 56 notes in 5 voices.

But the button distance between those Morinos should be the same, wouldn't it? Are your button levers crooked, with the reed blocks extending outward of the extent of the button board? On mine, the levers are straight, so the reed plates are flush with their corresponding buttons.

 

[debra]

Yes.

But the button distance between those Morinos should be the same, wouldn't it? Are your button levers crooked, with the reed blocks extending outward of the extent of the button board? On mine, the levers are straight, so the reed plates are flush with their corresponding buttons.

As you can see in the picture the keyboard is much smaller than the case. The second picture shows the reed blocks. Clearly the reed blocks extend outward of the keyboard. The body of the accordion is the same as that of the Morino VI, and that is large. So the length of the keyboard side (not the keyboard itself) here is about the same as that of the Korg. A typical bayan has a smaller body. The Korg and the Morino are around 50cm and a bayan is 46 to 47cm.

 

[dak]

As you can see in the picture the keyboard is much smaller than the case. The second picture shows the reed blocks. Clearly the reed blocks extend outward of the keyboard. The body of the accordion is the same as that of the Morino VI, and that is large. So the length of the keyboard side (not the keyboard itself) here is about the same as that of the Korg. A typical bayan has a smaller body. The Korg and the Morino are around 50cm and a bayan is 46 to 47cm.

Yes, my Morino has less overhang. The body ends quite closer to where the buttons end. Size is pretty much 75mm per octave; I guess that is a standard spacing that I'd suspect to be the same with your instrument.

 

[John M]

Dale Mathis has a video of the delivery of his Korg Fisa with the "unboxing" and initial setup of the accordion. A lot of detail. The link is here:

 

[CPez]

OK. Back from my 2 Week Trip. I just went through the past 7 pages that I've missed and MY GOD. How Much Misunderstanding there is. Come On Guys!! Haha, Jesus! Let me try to help you all, especially as the guy who's been Playing the KORG for 3 Months Every Day, have played it on National TV to Open the Election at Midnight, and already done 12 concerts on it.


Here we Go:

Dale Mathis has "New Korg FISA Accordion Programming by Dale Mathis" on the Kraft Music site with what he plans to do in programming the FISA. From what I can tell, he is treating the FISA as a "9X" with a lot more features that he will provide when he "digs in" to what the FISA has to offer. I think the nickname for the FISA will be the "9X". Kraft music has 22 FISA's on order.

John, I've had my 100 Scenes (Korg calls what Roland would call Sets, Scenes), done for a while Already. They are available Anytime. Genres from Flamenco to Jazz Organ to Orchestra to Polka to Tango to Billy Joel to Frank Morroco to Art Van Dam to Marimba to Italian Mazurka to Futuristic Movie Scenes, you name it, it's there. On calling the Korg Fisa Suprema the 9X, PLEASE, Please for the love of God, we need to Stop saying it. KORG already told Dale from his first video to Stop saying that. It is like calling the new Ford 150 "Just a Chevy Silverado 1500 cause ya know, it's like, the same thing, ya know, whatever." It's NOT. In terms of Order, Kevin Solecki has his first shipment, Greg V has his first shipment, my buddy in RI has his, as with Kimric in California. Remember that THOSE small dealers can sell for Much less if they wanted. Sweetwater, Kraft, and Guitar Center Must sell for $8000. It is to help the little guy who has a little story in a world Dominated by online sales.

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For those who want to jump right in, I’d say go with Greg (or somebody like him who’s more local to you) and avoid buying it from the big retailers.

Exactly Alan

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I find it somewhat bothersome, and I'm not really sure why, that already there are going to be Dale Mathis and Richard Noel sound sets available for the new Korg.

Ahhh...... Mine are Done. Have been done. Theirs won't be done for a while. Why do we continuously live in a world where the Only "Sets" are Richard and Dale? Michael Bridge has his of the 8X / Evo, and I never heard 1 Soul talk about it, when they are Unreal. Not to mention what Joe Natoli can do with an Electric Accordion.

I would hope after 8 years of development with the top minds at Korg that the user sounds and sets right out of the box would be incredible and that customization would be simple with the new user interface.

The only point of having some sets on an Electric Instrument is to get you going (And the KORG Team give 120 scenes out of the box FYI). I'm not sure why everyone just Expects that part of buying an Electric Accordion is having these World Renowned sets Ready, and on them. That's THE JOB of the BUYER to Create them. No Other Electric Instrument World Has this qualification. You don't get a furnished house when you buy it haha. You just get the House! But don't worry Thomas, I have EVERY Genre you could ever want in my 100 scenes, and I'll be editing my video Tonight to show everyone about 40 of the 100!

=============================================================================================

I'd argue it's an insult to Korg to imply that a brand new product will need "improving" by an individual or two.

"It's alright not to like the Fisa" - What's with that sentence, the product isn't even available yet?

We the Players and Scene / Set Creators are Not "Improving" them. We are just CREATING Dishes to Eat. It's Not KORG or Roalnd's Job to Create Dishes; their ONLY job is to create the Ingredients.

=============================================================================================

I will tell you that I would bet Richard Noel spent over a hundred hours on that tiny screen editing every sound, moving them to sound banks, matching them to appropriate bass sections, etc.

At any rate, I'd like to revisit the price of this machine. I thought it wasn't going to cost anywhere near $8000? It's $8K US everywhere I've looked. Maybe that's just the MSRP prior to actual release, but right now you're looking at around nine grand with taxes and shipping. Ouch!

I can tell you that I spent about 100 Hours Creating the 100 Scenes. It's Not an easy job. And you keep going back to them to Tweak them, and then you play on a gig in a different room or on different speakers, and Bam, it sounds bad in some way, and you have to tweak again. I know Richard cares deeply about his sets, so I'm Sure it was 100's of hours, and Yes, Richard is as Good of a guy as it gets. And PLease Pray for him for what he just went through losing his house to the fire.

And yes, again, the small dealers can sell them for less than the $8000, but obviously everyone wants to keep it similar as we don't want Wars to break out over $100. I hand picked the Dealers and they are All great people who I would trust with my accordion life.

=============================================================================================

Seems the price has dropped a bit at some webshops.
Currently mostly out of stock.

Again, the small dealers have wiggle room to help them out. And of Course everyone is out of stock haha, KORG US only got about 35 in the first shipment, and about 60 were sold in weeks. So everyone will be behind for a While, but it just shows HOW MUCH Interest there is!

=============================================================================================

My FR1B would be in the trash by now if it weren’t for Dale Mathis’ sounds. What came from Roland was pathethetic.

I Severely disagree with "Pathethic". Most of my Career has been playing what is almost Totally Stock Out of the Box 7X Sounds with just a few tweaks. How Can I play Electronic Music on National TV, Rock with famous Rock Bands, and Jazz with Jazz Legends if the Stock Sets were pathetic?

=============================================================================================

I am hoping for a set of videos like they do with the Korg Arrangers. Showing a brief description of each part. I have been involved with Korg for decades, I would assume the FISA will come out of the box sounding good. The Roland sounds seemed a bit dated and needed more programming. The led pushbutton windows on the FISA are a great addition. Although, have similar on the Korg PA5x which shows a discolor over time on the inside. Hopefully, this has been fixed. My PA5x has been in the shop for warranty replacing all the buttons.
FISA still out of stock.
KorgUS.com

I did 2+ Days filming at KORG's HQ in early September, and those videos should be out soon - BUT, Also, I will be NAMM every day, and I'm SURE we are going to film many videos then!

=============================================================================================

True! As is Dale Mathis, who’s sounds I have. Everyone has an opinion on which sets are “better,” but most agree they sound better than the factory sounds. I won’t buy the new Kong as long as my Roland continues to function, but I am so glad to see this progress in digital accordions.

Again... Why does everyone talk like Only Noel and Dale's sounds exist? I just have never Ever ever ever EVER been able to understand this for a decade. It's like it's 500BC and people think there is only the Moon and the Sun other than us in the Universe.

=============================================================================================

Dale Mathis has a video of the delivery of his Korg Fisa with the "unboxing" and initial setup of the accordion. A lot of detail.

John, I've had my KORG for 3 months. Played it Every Day. Flew to Italy in May to test it. And Now I'm on the Forum. If you have Any questions, ANY questions, I'm here. And Have been here. I don't understand why so many have so many questions about it, and post videos about the Fisa.... when I'm.... RIGHT Here

 

[Alan Sharkis]

OK. Back from my 2 Week Trip. I just went through the past 7 pages that I've missed and MY GOD. How Much Misunderstanding there is. Come On Guys!! Haha, Jesus! Let me try to help you all, especially as the guy who's been Playing the KORG for 3 Months Every Day, have played it on National TV to Open the Election at Midnight, and already done 12 concerts on it.


Here we Go:




John, I've had my 100 Scenes (Korg calls what Roland would call Sets, Scenes), done for a while Already. They are available Anytime. Genres from Flamenco to Jazz Organ to Orchestra to Polka to Tango to Billy Joel to Frank Morroco to Art Van Dam to Marimba to Italian Mazurka to Futuristic Movie Scenes, you name it, it's there. On calling the Korg Fisa Suprema the 9X, PLEASE, Please for the love of God, we need to Stop saying it. KORG already told Dale from his first video to Stop saying that. It is like calling the new Ford 150 "Just a Chevy Silverado 1500 cause ya know, it's like, the same thing, ya know, whatever." It's NOT. In terms of Order, Kevin Solecki has his first shipment, Greg V has his first shipment, my buddy in RI has his, as with Kimric in California. Remember that THOSE small dealers can sell for Much less if they wanted. Sweetwater, Kraft, and Guitar Center Must sell for $8000. It is to help the little guy who has a little story in a world Dominated by online sales.

=============================================================================================


Exactly Alan

=============================================================================================


Ahhh...... Mine are Done. Have been done. Theirs won't be done for a while. Why do we continuously live in a world where the Only "Sets" are Richard and Dale? Michael Bridge has his of the 8X / Evo, and I never heard 1 Soul talk about it, when they are Unreal. Not to mention what Joe Natoli can do with an Electric Accordion.



The only point of having some sets on an Electric Instrument is to get you going (And the KORG Team give 120 scenes out of the box FYI). I'm not sure why everyone just Expects that part of buying an Electric Accordion is having these World Renowned sets Ready, and on them. That's THE JOB of the BUYER to Create them. No Other Electric Instrument World Has this qualification. You don't get a furnished house when you buy it haha. You just get the House! But don't worry Thomas, I have EVERY Genre you could ever want in my 100 scenes, and I'll be editing my video Tonight to show everyone about 40 of the 100!

=============================================================================================


We the Players and Scene / Set Creators are Not "Improving" them. We are just CREATING Dishes to Eat. It's Not KORG or Roalnd's Job to Create Dishes; their ONLY job is to create the Ingredients.

=============================================================================================


I can tell you that I spent about 100 Hours Creating the 100 Scenes. It's Not an easy job. And you keep going back to them to Tweak them, and then you play on a gig in a different room or on different speakers, and Bam, it sounds bad in some way, and you have to tweak again. I know Richard cares deeply about his sets, so I'm Sure it was 100's of hours, and Yes, Richard is as Good of a guy as it gets. And PLease Pray for him for what he just went through losing his house to the fire.

And yes, again, the small dealers can sell them for less than the $8000, but obviously everyone wants to keep it similar as we don't want Wars to break out over $100. I hand picked the Dealers and they are All great people who I would trust with my accordion life.

=============================================================================================


Again, the small dealers have wiggle room to help them out. And of Course everyone is out of stock haha, KORG US only got about 35 in the first shipment, and about 60 were sold in weeks. So everyone will be behind for a While, but it just shows HOW MUCH Interest there is!

=============================================================================================


I Severely disagree with "Pathethic". Most of my Career has been playing what is almost Totally Stock Out of the Box 7X Sounds with just a few tweaks. How Can I play Electronic Music on National TV, Rock with famous Rock Bands, and Jazz with Jazz Legends if the Stock Sets were pathetic?

=============================================================================================


I did 2+ Days filming at KORG's HQ in early September, and those videos should be out soon - BUT, Also, I will be NAMM every day, and I'm SURE we are going to film many videos then!

=============================================================================================


Again... Why does everyone talk like Only Noel and Dale's sounds exist? I just have never Ever ever ever EVER been able to understand this for a decade. It's like it's 500BC and people think there is only the Moon and the Sun other than us in the Universe.

=============================================================================================


John, I've had my KORG for 3 months. Played it Every Day. Flew to Italy in May to test it. And Now I'm on the Forum. If you have Any questions, ANY questions, I'm here. And Have been here. I don't understand why so many have so many questions about it, and post videos about the Fisa.... when I'm.... RIGHT Here

Cory, let’s talk common sense for a moment. If I’m wrong, please correct me, but there’s something much more valuable to be gained by buying any accordion from a small dealer than a price drop. It’s called personal attention, and that’s often accompanied by real knowledge of both the instrument and the customer’s needs.

Let’s say that somebody lives around the corner from a big retailer, part of a chain, and asks to try out a new-to-the-market digital accordion. What are the chances that a salesperson is:

1. somebody who plays accordion, and/or;
2. somebody who will take some time to help the customer even though there are twenty other customers waiting to be served?

What are the chances that the store even has one of those new digital accordions for customers to try?

I may have posted something about an independent music store near me that would order a Korg Fisa Suprema if I wanteed one, but wouldn’t stock it. As far as I know, this music store has never sold accordions before, and neither has the big chain I described.

You mentioned a few small dealers in your post who’d give the customer lots of personal attention. You and I could probably name a few more. I know that when I call one for advice, even a long time after my last purchase, that advice is forthcoming, offered with no strings, and more valid than I’d get from anyone else.

 

[CPez]

You mentioned a few small dealers in your post who’d give the customer lots of personal attention. You and I could probably name a few more. I know that when I call one for advice, even a long time after my last purchase, that advice is forthcoming, offered with no strings, and more valid than I’d get from anyone else.

Oh Exactly Alan! It's not just the Price, it's the personal connection, Kevin at Carnegie Accordions, or Greg V, or Lilliana & Alex at Music Magic or Artie in Rhode Island or Kimric who's on the site here, are ALL like Family to so many, and WHY I chose them as the dealers. There were more on the list like Jack Brantley in Atlanta where I just was, or the Italo-American Factory Ladies in Chicago where I was last week, and a few more I had put on the list, but who didn't think it made sense for them, which is Totally their prerogative. I of COURSE Love the people at Sweetwater, but they will be selling to people who are Not in the Accordion World / Don't go to Accordion Events, and those who most of us don't know Inside the Accordion World, so I'm not hurting their sales by saying buying from this short list I mentioned above is the best option for those of us IN the Accordion World.

 

[dak]

The only point of having some sets on an Electric Instrument is to get you going (And the KORG Team give 120 scenes out of the box FYI). I'm not sure why everyone just Expects that part of buying an Electric Accordion is having these World Renowned sets Ready, and on them. That's THE JOB of the BUYER to Create them. No Other Electric Instrument World Has this qualification.

Uhm Cory? Let's take an old-school Solton MS60 arranger. It comes with 99 preprogrammed styles you can select out of the box. The user can create their own versions or extensions of them: those are called patterns (and can be saved and loaded to diskette). Ketron has its own libraries of patterns it offers and there are loads of user-generate patterns for sale elsewhere.

But wait, you say. Those are whole rhythmic units, not just basic relations of key to sound.

The basic patches are called "voices" of which there are 256, additional ones can be loaded as "user voices" (which is similar to what Roland offers with things like the Dallape extensions). Format appears to be proprietary, only few on offers. OK.

But they are actually only building blocks for what sound you get when pressing a key. What sound you get is determined by "programs".

The MS60/50 offers a total of 128 different programs which can be set up by means of the PROGRAM
function in the EDIT menu, recalled by pressing EDIT with the LIVE menu showing. It is possible to
distribute four instrument voices along the length of the kcyboard, assigning them to variable sections
which can even overlap by any amount where required. Several parameters can be set for each instrument
by means of the various menus available. Full programming instructions can be found in HOW TO
WRITE A PROGRAM on page 3.18 in Chapter 3 - “PROGRAMMING THE MS60/50”.

The programs are what combines the instrument's facilities for generating a basic instrument sound into something layered through key velocity or keyboard regions or in "duet" or "trio" mode by assigning the instrument patches in order of pitch. Those voices can then still be individually changed with effects like reverb and vibrato and filters and given suitable stereo balance and so on.

The programs come set up to defaults you can modify (there's something like 20 slots you can fill in by default I think).

We are talking about an electronic instrument from the last millennium I think but definitely older than 20 years, and a whole universe of people distributing patches and sounds and programs developed around it and its successors, and the instrument were played by a lot more people than were actually programming them on more than a trivial level. And it was the bread-and-butter arranger for a whole lot of one-man-bands (and still is for some) booked for entertainment.

You are lacking the view of a musician doing basic streetwork, but players of your class are too few to generate enough sales for justifying instrument development. It's the sales to those non-full-time musicians that allow a company to make development worth its money in the first place. I get where you are coming from, but it's not a place that could exist without those you decry.

 

[Tom]

Thanks for your thoughts and input Cory. Obviously you have a different perspective than most of us and it’s interesting to see. Good luck with the Korg and please keep the info coming!

 

[Ventura]

the perspective is everything, but it mostly emanates from
the requirements posed by equipment
"in professional use"

i know my viewpoints have often grated with many people,
and my insensitivity about some things like
"do i have mand made reeds" and such

but there is no better crucible in which to vet a device for
ALL usage than gigs, night after night, as reliability and
being able to work with the device well enough in the
bare moments between songs is what really matters

the main dividing line, and to which it is still painful for me to acknowledge,
is the vast majority of you needing someone elses "sounds" and set-ups
in order for you to be comfortable/confident/happy..

from the time of the Master reedless, which current tonal accordion standards
have made untenable, but by the standards of it's day and
professional suitability to purpose made it a money-maker for
many Pro players, we have enjoyed the next level of enhanced
into the future accordion shaped objects, and the Korg is taking
the current tip-of-the-spear position

frankly, the category is matured at this point so that there really is
only one question any of you need to answer..

can i get away with blowing $8000 today
or will my Wife kill me ?

ciao

Ventura

 

[CPez]

It's the sales to those non-full-time musicians that allow a company to make development worth its money in the first place. I get where you are coming from, but it's not a place that could exist without those you decry.

Well remember, I don't work For the company, I'm just the Player and here to explain what I see in it. And Dak, that's why I spent Over 100 Hours making my 100 Scenes, so that YES, you guys Can have Tons and Tons of things to play with . And I can only Dak, go by that I travel All over the countryand the world to play with Keyboard players, and All of them just pull out their Nord or Korg or Yamaha, etc., and create the sounds with all the knobs on the keyboard Live depending on what song or even What Part of the Song. Same for All Organ players. So I just don't exist in worlds Except our Accordion World, where people Specifically go to Click to "Set 57 A" to go play a song. The go to Set 57 A to pick a Patch, maybe pick a 2nd patch, and then play with it, tweak it, and we play.

 

[CPez]

The SCENES VIDEO is Out:

100 CPez Scenes for the KORG Fisa Suprema

 

[Alan Sharkis]

The SCENES VIDEO is Out:

100 CPez Scenes for the KORG Fisa Suprema

Caught it on FB before I logged on here.Great playing, and obviously scenes made for you, but usable for anyone who likes to use them.

For many, it’s a balancing act. Do they have the time, talent and desire to create scenes that reflect their individual musical selves, or are they looking for shortcuts that will wow an audience but not realky please themselves? Or, are they just
expressing dissatisfaction with the sounds the factory provides and looking to improve them?

 

[CPez]

Great playing, and obviously scenes made for you.....

If they were made for me Alan, there would be No Polka Scenes, No Cajun Scenes, None of many others I made, and No Solo Acoustic Accordions Made at All hahaha.

 

[Thomas N]

The SCENES VIDEO is Out:

100 CPez Scenes for the KORG Fisa Suprema

This is just excellent! For me personally, not so much for the personalized scenes but just purely for showing everything this machine is capable of. I mean every conceivable style is presented in one short video. This is the only video I have seen that has demonstrated so many facets of the instrument in one place. I love the Marocco, Van Damme mallets, jazzy sounds but I wasn't expecting to really like the Big Band and orchestral sets as much as I did.

This one video truly shows the age of the Roland FR-8X and is the first video I have seen where I didn't think to myself, "I can pretty much get that same functionality from my Roland".

Thank you for making this! It really helps us out.

 

[John M]

John M said:
Dale Mathis has "New Korg FISA Accordion Programming by Dale Mathis" on the Kraft Music site with what he plans to do in programming the FISA. From what I can tell, he is treating the FISA as a "9X" with a lot more features that he will provide when he "digs in" to what the FISA has to offer. I think the nickname for the FISA will be the "9X".

. . . On calling the Korg Fisa Suprema the 9X, PLEASE, Please for the love of God, we need to Stop saying it. KORG already told Dale from his first video to Stop saying that.

Sorry Cory -- I won't refer to the FISA as a "9X".

. . . the KORG Team give 120 scenes out of the box FYI). I'm not sure why everyone just Expects that part of buying an Electric Accordion is having these World Renowned sets Ready, and on them. That's THE JOB of the BUYER to Create them. No Other Electric Instrument World Has this qualification. You don't get a furnished house when you buy it haha. You just get the House! But don't worry Thomas, I have EVERY Genre you could ever want in my 100 scenes, and I'll be editing my video Tonight to show everyone about 40 of the 100!

Cory -- out of the box, there are 120 Scenes from Korg. How are your 100 Scenes available? -- As an Optional add-on?

 

[John M]

The SCENES VIDEO is Out:

100 CPez Scenes for the KORG Fisa Suprema

Great job Cory -- really displaying the versatility of the FISA. One reason I bought my 8X was the organ section was designed after the B3. The Joey D. Hammond sound is real authentic. The Marimba & Vibes are also very realistic. The sound/tones of the FISA seem to be more genuine than those of the 8X.

 

[Alan Sharkis]

If they were made for me Alan, there would be No Polka Scenes, No Cajun Scenes, None of many others I made, and No Solo Acoustic Accordions Made at All hahaha.

Hello Cory,

I apologize. What I meant to say was that you made the scenes for yourself, and that they are a reflection of you as a player. Sorry if it came across as somebody else making the scenes for you.

 

[dak]

If they were made for me Alan, there would be No Polka Scenes, No Cajun Scenes, None of many others I made, and No Solo Acoustic Accordions Made at All hahaha.

Hello Cory,

I apologize. What I meant to say was that you made the scenes for yourself, and that they are a reflection of you as a player. Sorry if it came across as somebody else making the scenes for you.

Typography could have helped getting Alan and me on the same page here: there is a difference between "If they were made for me" and "If they were made for me", and my interpretation of the intended meaning happens to be the second one.